Suggestions for Cosmic Break!

Winty wrote:

Solo_Ace wrote:

Herm, a stun lasts how long? A fraction of a second?

Meanwhile, remind me again how long Curse/Vox/Lex last?

when the fuck did I say shit about stuns? you were born retarded.

Quote :

LETS NERF ALL THE SUPPORT WEAPONS, FUCK SIGMA CLOCK AND BUGSY AS WELL. Nig, you are missing the point of what ace is saying. Disables should stay support and not be paired up with things that can hit you for over 100. When that shock zook hits me for 100 dmg, I'll start complaining because until then, whenever I get hit by it, I can, god forbid, stop right clicking, and walk away. Like honestly, when you start putting dmg and disables together, you start to make other stuff obsolete (see melfi heart). Like there is absolutely no reason to use supports like sigma clocks anymore cause there are lnd bots that do disables much better. Disables that alter weapon fire rates have been around forever, but its only really become a problem with nemlim mellow because she hits you extremely hard as well. Basically what I'm trying to say is that by keeping all the disables separate from things that can hit hard, you can balance cb pretty well.

i never fucking mentioned supports. I'd tell you to calm down and use your brain but it's pretty fucking obvious that you don't have one. My complaint was that this community is still overly focused on zeros when there's plenty of fucking non-zero shit that does the same fucking thing.
nemlim mellow hits you for 40 damage at 640 interval with no chargeup and no hard cooldown and every hit applies charge delay for 8 seconds. Far more of a threat to ranged attackers than vox.
Ragna barret hits for 50 damage twice with a 1.5s hard cooldown between each clip with no startup and applies the same debuff for a similiar amount of time. It's not bullet jam but it might as well be considering what it does. Far more of a threat to ranged attackers than vox.
Katalina with EIWs shuts down fly-based artillery and supports from moving much of anywhere by removing their boost.  katalina NEXT hardstuns anything while doing 70damage with her MLG while stealing 4 bars of boost. This is about equal or worse than the debuff kagura gives in terms of much it fucks over anything relying on boost.
wolfraid has a ranged bind attached to it's projectile. Same as jace and was released multiple years earlier.
Trizelion has shock on his melee attack thing in aura mode. Unlike Lex he can combo into this and it's not on a 5 second cooldown.
flapjack LG2 shoots disorder missiles with it's subweapon.
Diana can inflict repeat stun on things that get near her. Since it spawns on her rather than having independent tracking this is probably a lot more useful than kagura's repeat stun field.

look at all these mother fucking non-zeros that have debuffs and other gay shit.
yeah son vox is the dominant force in summer 2013.
people don't even use resha in clan fight because she doesn't fucking pull her own weight. I think that says something. like you're a shitter.

Mellow is gaytier considering hardstun and bad homing and a whole lot of other bullshit

The main difference between bullet jam and charge delay, again, is that you can actually still shoot while charge delayed, which is why these two are on totally different levels. Plus, that core weapon's ammo issues are well known to everyone, especially if you're alphastriking.

Katalina's perk is to boost steal and she does shut down airs, but Katalina has to be within shooting distance for any of it to hit, while Kagura can be at like 8-900 range shooting humongous birds with humongous hitboxes. BG's Core is almost statically identical to an untuned MLG except lower force, a few small deviants in range and speed, and a little longer cooldown, but let's remember, untuned MLG. You can't hit shit with an untuned MLG unless you're right up in their face.

I don't even know about wolfraid or trizelion personally, so I'm not going to comment on those.

Disorder shouldn't even be a debuff. You and practically still hit anything while suffering disorder unless you're at max effective range of your weapon.

Plus one of the main things about the bots I mentioned is that they tend to break the whole rock-paper-scissors aspect of having the AIR, LND, and ART types.

Resha is a land, and therefore it should be obvious that Airs should easily be able to deal more damage on them. If we overlook the fact she has a bubble shield that protects her from w/e damage or w/e hits whichever once comes first etc., one Vox on the airs that are attacking her and suddenly, Resha shuts down her supposed "weakness".

Eris is a land, again, Airs should be easily be able to deal more damage etc. Darkness Hide, oh boy, now she can't be hit by any guns at all. If the unfortunate Air unit should land and Eris can hit it, suddenly the Air has no way of fighting back with its guns because cursed. Though because this relies on the Air landing on the ground, Eris doesn't break the cycle as much as Resha does, though Eris can arguably be more broken.

If Kagura spots a land, and the land tries to melee, she has a fallback seal which deals a particualirly short-lasting slow and damaging effect, melt, but before this, she is already hardstunning the said land by shooting birds with ridiculously fast speed making the stuns hard to dodge and making her effectively hardcounter both Airs and Lands.

If you compare shock bazooka to Resha/Eris, a support unit is in the center of the triangle, and usually should be in the back closer with teammates healing and whatnot, (of course, we can go on all day about how gay HEART is and how Melfi is a Land and yada yada yada but that isnt the point), and therefore they are supposed to be healers/supporters who aren't large damage dealers (again, a few exceptions etc.), and naturally they shouldn't be attacking at range and have weapons to fend off close range attacks, and Shock Bazooka reflects this. You won't deal a lot of damage if you try to be damage oriented with shock bazooka, it has a short range, and it does its job, protecting the support from close range attacks, well, while not being a long range large AOE weapon disabler with 50 force when Resha also already has a homing, highspeed, highrange shotgun with 9? force per bullet to compliment it.

I guess the point I'm also trying to make with the Shock Zook and Resha/Eris comparison is, a weapon should only have one of two purposes, debuffing or damaging, with damaging supposedly being the main one. But Resha/Eris both have weapons that can do both, and when that debuff is as strong as disabling weapons, not bad homing or disorder or none of that shit but actually hard disabling weapons, unless you want to give Eris's melee attacks the effective range of a shock knife and make its melee tracking terrible and combo limited to one or two strikes as well as giving it 2000 int, or cutting Resha's Vox/Lex range by 70%, dropping the force to 11 and removing it's AoE capabilities, then no, these weapon disabling debuffs should be removed.

Solo_Ace wrote:

Explain this then.

If both Glanz, your example, and Eris are equally overpowered faggotry, and let's even ignore the fact Eris has darkness hide, I'm pretty sure it's pretty damn obvious who would actually deal more damage and score higher if both users were equally intelligent.

Nemlim mellow. Always talking about Nemlim Mellow. Nemlim mellow is retarded. holy shit fuck nemlim mellow.


Look at cost effectiveness. Glanz clocks in at barely over 1.3k. Eris totals to nearly 1.5k. Assuming nobody dies because nobody shoots them, just from that we can EXPECT Eris to do more damage and thus score higher to make up for the fact that if she DOES die, she'll have a much higher cost because the bounty system is a cost multiplier so she will scale more heavily with it than glanz will since her base cost before multipliers is higher, thus making her death have a much bigger impact on her team. THIS is the kind of thing casuals like yourself don't look at. Mellow runs around at 40/32 with less than 1.1k cost and somewhere around 450hp. She fucks over people who use main weapons with her own main weapon, and is pretty much completely immune to melee with her subweapon, which is an invulnerable dash WITH A MELEE COUNTER BUILT INTO IT. She can dodge fucking nuke haku, so it has uses beyond use fucking over melee. Now if you stuck this on a bot that costs 1.5k, I'd say it's a fucking stupid thing to include in the game. If you tell me this is on a thing that costs slightly more than the suicide seraphs people used to run and has practically infinite ammo, it gets a lot more retarded.

but you probably don't think of things in those terms since the idea that you could actually kill an eris never fucking occurred to you, ever. You probably don't even pay attention to how much people cost when they die, only their listed cost on the scoreboard.

Back to the original question, though...

Elisalotte has more force on her melee, attached to a longer combo with a better hitbox. It'll do more damage to single targets and is more likely to catch multiple targets. There are people who run around with 3x GGrap and a step booster to take advantage of this, and there are people who play her in a traditional style. Additionally, chiv slash does fucking BLAST DAMAGE and has a huge AoE.

Eris is going to have more HP, has access to wonderbits(you probably won't get to use them unless you do some fucked up, unoptimized build so this is a moot point), has access to a cheaper assault step, and has whatever disable cart you selected, and possibly the ability to gain abit of HP back from EX blade revive if you went glint, or a better shield if you went hide.

In short, eris is going to be more durable, glanz is going to do more damage, and eris is going to cost quite a bit more.

Solo_Ace wrote:

Mellow is gaytier considering hardstun and bad homing and a whole lot of other bullshit

Do you even know what is a mellow?

Pretty sure Solo meant to say aim assist.

Solo_Ace wrote:

BG's Core is almost statically identical to an untuned MLG except lower force, a few small deviants in range and speed, and a little longer cooldown, but let's remember, untuned MLG.

Do you even EIW?

Solo_Ace wrote:

You can't hit shit with an untuned MLG unless you're right up in their face.

Excuse me?

Zwiebel Force wrote:

Pretty sure Solo meant to say aim assist.

Pretty sure he meant it as the debuff caused by Mellow, not aim assist. Whatever you're reading.

kyarashotgun wrote:

Solo_Ace wrote:

You can't hit shit with an untuned MLG unless you're right up in their face.

Excuse me?

Aim at someone with half a brain, you won't hit them unless its tuned.

kyarashotgun wrote:

Solo_Ace wrote:

You can't hit shit with an untuned MLG unless you're right up in their face.

Excuse me?

Please go try to hit things with untuned MLG unless you're in close quarters or at close range.

Solo_Ace wrote:

Please go try to hit things with untuned MLG unless you're in close quarters or at close range.

I dunno man I hit shit with 3x G Force MLG pretty easily and I think Force tuning equals untuned if you're talking about speed.

tggt wrote:

Solo_Ace wrote:

Mellow is gaytier considering hardstun and bad homing and a whole lot of other bullshit

Do you even know what is a mellow?

I meant the thing with the two icons with the machine pistol thing and a bunch of question marks where the whole thing is sort of purple/yellow/greenish

kyarashotgun wrote:

Solo_Ace wrote:

Please go try to hit things with untuned MLG unless you're in close quarters or at close range.

I dunno man I hit shit with 3x G Force MLG pretty easily and I think Force tuning equals untuned if you're talking about speed.

You're either in close quarters, playing braindead people, or you tuned GForce Alpha which would dunk your range while keeping your speed the same so it would seem you are hitting more because maintaining speed with shorter range etc.

Solo_Ace wrote:

Spoiler:

No i think they aren't on different levels. Resha voxes you, your weapons will be back before her vox is back. Also if she voxed you, you suddenly are QUITE FUCKING AWARE of her and probably aren't going to be re-voxed as soon as it's off cooldown. Additionally there's quite a bit of risk in throwing a vox at a group of people.

Mellow is going to charge delay you. She's going to hop around and hit you with this. She's going to hit you with this again and again and unless she or you leaves, the debuff is never going to go away. It's CONSTANT. This is actually much worse than vox because vox is a temporary problem that happens to you when you fuck up and get hit by it. I get hit by a vox and I'm like "wow I wasn't paying attention" or "oh ok there's a resha somewhere on the enemy team." Mellow hits me and there's actually nothing I can say because it's like getting hit by a handy bazooka. Actually that's exactly what it is. Mellow is an infinite ammo shell based handy bazooka that inflicts this retarded status on every single fucking hit.

>ammo issues
yeah what doesn't have ammo issues
i mean aside from mellow.

katanext main weapon stats @ 2x EIW: 36/120/320/400/1200
untuned MLG weapon weapon stats: 48/100/310/330/1000
in order to get comparable speed out of an MLG you need Grapid+Hrapid.
basically you have no idea what the fuck you are saying so just stop.

Resha isn't any better against airs than a zook hopper. Or a nemlim mellow. Or a piercegun hopper. I beat airs with ion PS plenty. The triangle applies to weapon damages. It's like supereffective moves in pokemon. You don't need to use it, but it's there to help you, and it sure as hell doesn't tell you what can or can't beat what. People have been dunking airs with zook hoppers since fucking beta and you want to waltz in here and say RESHA breaks it? I was going to talk about how the shield works and how vox can't hit things above her but I don't really have to describe that in detail because zook hoppers fucking destroy whatever retarded point you were attempting to make.
basically you have no idea what you are saying so just stop.

DH has a visual indicator that she is there. You can still hit her if you aim your weapons right(unless you have only homing weapons. protip: you shouldn't). She can't jump or short boost when she has DH on so if you are going to land, all you need to do is land on a rock tree or small step and she can't hit you. Also it'll eventually time out and if she isn't in DH she doesn't have access to her disable which you whole point is based around so what I'm trying to say is
basically you have no idea what you are saying so just stop.

Kagura birds are 100% blast damage if you have blast guard she does very little damage against you.
no i don't think she's going to hardstun lands
yes the barrier is gay, you have to counter her with hoppers not melees.
she's pretty gay though
not as gay as diana or ragna who aren't zeros

idk about you but pepo does a lot of deeps for a support
idk about you but when you compare squidol EV's permaslow to vox I think it's pretty clear which is the better supporting ability.

vox is pretty gay. I'm not saying it isn't. I'm not actually saying much of anything about vox other than listing that it has a large startup that freezes the user in place and a large cooldown. I'm simply listing facts about it such as making vague implications towards a risk/reward factor that is inherent in it's usage. You all seem to be taking me for "defending zeros" when I'm just saying there are things in this game that are a lot stronger and more effective than them. Apparently saying "hey you are overrating to x" is the same as saying "x is not a problem at all." in which case I think you're a shitter who is still blind to the actual state of the game and living in the past where you can't see the world beyond hotglue's 1.7k cost eris builds.

Solo_Ace wrote:

stuff

Yeah those are just your assumptions.

kyarashotgun wrote:

Solo_Ace wrote:

stuff

Yeah those are just your assumptions.

No seriously, go into a room that isn't full of braindead idiots and that isn't an Angel Academy Map and try to hit people with an untuned MLG, or at least an MLG that doesn't have any range penalties or is speed tuned without being in their face.

Solo_Ace wrote:

go into a room that isn't full of braindead idiots

lol

I have two questions:

1 - Did CS ever pick anything from this thread and applied it to the game?

2 - What exactly are we going to accomplish by determining what is or isn't broken\retarded\"gay" here?

They barely read the tickets sent to them directly, come the fuck on. Also, a guide\thread with stuff like the tactics Winty mentioned or how to properly tune a MLG would much more useful than all this bullshit.

e:

op pls nerf:

Jukse wrote:

I have two questions:

1 - Did CS ever pick anything from this thread and applied it to the game?

2 - What exactly are we going to accomplish by determining what is or isn't broken\retarded\"gay" here?

They barely read the tickets sent to them directly, come the fuck on. Also, a guide\thread with stuff like the tactics Winty mentioned or how to properly tune a MLG would much more useful than all this bullshit.

CS still hasn't fixed the graphical bug with Akane which makes me sad

Solo_Ace wrote:

kyarashotgun wrote:

Solo_Ace wrote:

stuff

Yeah those are just your assumptions.

No seriously, go into a room that isn't full of braindead idiots and that isn't an Angel Academy Map and try to hit people with an untuned MLG, or at least an MLG that doesn't have any range penalties or is speed tuned without being in their face.

Spoiler:

I tried my best k.

Solo_Ace wrote:

Alright I did forget to hit x2 EIW when stat checking. My error on that.

I don't even care if something is a zero or not, I'm talking about the retarded ranged weapon disabling debuffs that exist.

Handy Baz land hoppers broke the triangle, but then shit like Flapjack, Lux Legion, and a bunch of other airs that have things that airs shouldn't even have were introduced, etc. so what I'm saying is, the new airs broke the triangle, but at least they fixed the whole Land Handy Zook hopper problem to some extent.

NO NIGGA THEY DIDN'T BREAK THE TRIANGLE THEY USED IT.
NIGGA WHAT YOU THINK THE TRIANGLE IS FOR? SAYING WHAT TYPES BEAT WHAT OTHER TYPES?
NO NIGGA THAT AIN'T WHAT IT'S ABOUT
IT'S DAMAGE TYPES AGAINST BOT TYPES NIGGA
YOU WANT TO KILL AN AIR YOU USE BLAST WEAPONS NOT ARTILLERY.
YOU PUT A HANDY BAZOOKA ON A LAZFLAMME
YOU PUT A MINI ZOOK ON A SERAPH
IN BETA NIGGAS WAS PUTTING MIDZOOKS ON BUGSYCAITS TO KILL AIRS YOU THINK WE HAD TIME TO USE ARTILLERY FOR THAT?

NIGGAS IN BETA PUT HANDY LASERS ON LND HOPPERS AND FOUGHT OTHER LND HOPPERS WHO ALSO HAD HANDY LASERS AND THEY DID TONS OF DAMAGE BECAUSE THEY WERE USING BEAM WEAPONS ON LANDS BUT CYBERSTEP SAID NUH-UH THAT AIN'T GANGSTA AND NERFED THEM ALL.

NIGGAS STILL BE PUTTING PARA-TUNED SLICE GUNS ON ARTILLERY AND KILLING LANDS LEFT AND RIGHT THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT.

THIS IS WHAT THE WEAPON TRIANGLE IS NIGGA
DO YOU EVEN LIFT

guys i think we broke winty

rip

Winty wrote:

Solo_Ace wrote:

Alright I did forget to hit x2 EIW when stat checking. My error on that.

I don't even care if something is a zero or not, I'm talking about the retarded ranged weapon disabling debuffs that exist.

Handy Baz land hoppers broke the triangle, but then shit like Flapjack, Lux Legion, and a bunch of other airs that have things that airs shouldn't even have were introduced, etc. so what I'm saying is, the new airs broke the triangle, but at least they fixed the whole Land Handy Zook hopper problem to some extent.

NO NIGGA THEY DIDN'T BREAK THE TRIANGLE THEY USED IT.
NIGGA WHAT YOU THINK THE TRIANGLE IS FOR? SAYING WHAT TYPES BEAT WHAT OTHER TYPES?
NO NIGGA THAT AIN'T WHAT IT'S ABOUT
IT'S DAMAGE TYPES AGAINST BOT TYPES NIGGA
YOU WANT TO KILL AN AIR YOU USE BLAST WEAPONS NOT ARTILLERY.
YOU PUT A HANDY BAZOOKA ON A LAZFLAMME
YOU PUT A MINI ZOOK ON A SERAPH
IN BETA NIGGAS WAS PUTTING MIDZOOKS ON BUGSYCAITS TO KILL AIRS YOU THINK WE HAD TIME TO USE ARTILLERY FOR THAT?

NIGGAS IN BETA PUT HANDY LASERS ON LND HOPPERS AND FOUGHT OTHER LND HOPPERS WHO ALSO HAD HANDY LASERS AND THEY DID TONS OF DAMAGE BECAUSE THEY WERE USING BEAM WEAPONS ON LANDS BUT CYBERSTEP SAID NUH-UH THAT AIN'T GANGSTA AND NERFED THEM ALL.

NIGGAS STILL BE PUTTING PARA-TUNED SLICE GUNS ON ARTILLERY AND KILLING LANDS LEFT AND RIGHT THEY DON'T GIVE A SHIT.

THIS IS WHAT THE WEAPON TRIANGLE IS NIGGA
DO YOU EVEN LIFT

Yeah but can you put something like an MLG on a land? No, because Lands are generally meant for melee/shell gunnery, Airs for Beam weaponery, and Artillery for explosives, but supports are sort of in a limbo zone.

Of course, exceptions such as mini bazooka, handy bazooka, regular bazooka, beam gun, etc. to give things a changeup but this is what I meant by type triangle.

I'm not going to comment on most things you have mentioned, but in my opinion the two things that stand out are Legion (thank god nobody with an actual brain uses it) and the BS parts that let lands fly over the whole map.

And if it depended on me I'd make all airbone melee strikes force the robot to dive instead of keep moving forward in the air.

Anyway, it's pointless if you complain and keep charging rt or doing offers in the site (that counts too, cunts). The best way to make them listen is to vote with your wallet, but I guess that's too much to expect from most of you.

Solo_Ace wrote:

Yeah but can you put something like an MLG on a land? No, because Lands are generally meant for melee/shell gunnery, Airs for Beam weaponery, and Artillery for explosives, but supports are sort of in a limbo zone.

Of course, exceptions such as mini bazooka, handy bazooka, regular bazooka, beam gun, etc. to give things a changeup but this is what I meant by type triangle.

that's an issue of diversifying the game by forcing people to use certain things if they want to use certain weapons. There's a REASON they made it so supports can't use middle bazooka anymore - it was because people actually STOPPED USING ARTILLERY because you could just take a support and replicate the playstyle without having the melee weakness, as well as a better WB selection.

Having diverse weapon selection allows people to have more interesting builds.
There's an Accel saber build going around CBJP that uses a bazooka, an estes AM, and a kshield. I shouldn't need to explain the merits of this build or why it's highly effective. There's one guy on CBEN who has used that same weapons setup.
People used to stick negatron rifles on lands and hop around with those to take out other lands. The game wasn't as laggy back then, though. Not sure it would work as well now.
It's like pokemon. Some things have a lot of versaility in their movepool and get access to a lot of different moves, yet other things don't because that would be retarded. Glanz having blast damage on her chiv slash is retarded, she does huge damage if she manages to get airs with it. Giving lands access to blast zooks would be stupid because then you'd have really fast blast zooks running around which would be a problem to airs. Sticking them on artillery limits the mobility they get. It's not about "oh then lands will kill airs." it's that then lands will have a weapon that is balanced around the fact that it's only usable by things with gimped walk stats that are reliant on their lessened boost gauge(fly/boostrun) for fast movement.

Tuskin wrote:

I'm not going to comment on most things you have mentioned, but in my opinion the two things that stand out are Legion (thank god nobody with an actual brain uses it) and the BS parts that let lands fly over the whole map.

Are your referring to the awesomeness that is this???

Spoiler:

Jukse wrote:

Also, a guide\thread with stuff like the tactics Winty mentioned or how to properly tune a MLG would much more useful than all this bullshit.

if you have specific questions I would be happy to address them

Winty wrote:

Jukse wrote:

Also, a guide\thread with stuff like the tactics Winty mentioned or how to properly tune a MLG would much more useful than all this bullshit.

if you have specific questions I would be happy to address them

Not really. What I meant to say is that people should ask for help on how to deal X or Y before defaulting to "X or Y is always getting me killed! Clearly OP" because, since this is such a huge forum, chances are that somebody more experienced\smarter\whatever not only has advice to give on the matter but also is willing to do so, as you and tggt just did.

Case and point, it's not rare to see fat ART-users on Ch. 3 rambling about how OP the untuned, Rt-bought Ouka on the other team is without even stopping to consider that maybe the problem lies in the fact their bots moves at 4 WLK.

Seems like a waste of time to keep hoping that the devs nerf something when we could be thinking about how to get around it.