Game-play: Redefine "skill" for Cosmic Break

SeedZero, you make good points, but they quite simply can't and don't apply as much to CosmicBreak as they would to most other games. Skill and meta knowledge both play roles, but in the end, CosmicBreak is host to perhaps the most horrible balance I have ever seen. Quite simply, there are matchups that are almost unwinnable, requiring a huge gap in skill to be even. Some of that is the rock-paper-scissors aspect; any halfway-decent Art player should be able to beat a good air player, all other things equal, but an absurdly large number of bots are just so far above the general balance baselines (insomuch as they actually exist) that someone with a "balanced" bot literally cannot win unless the player with the powerful bot is below-average. Quite simply, this entire thread debates a portion of the game that takes a back seat to luck, deep pockets, and a willingness to feed trolls money.

He thinks this game is auto aim

Spoiler:

^That's actually hilarious.

The targeting system and hit-registering system in this game both suck. I've sometimes led and hit successfully only to deal zero damage to my target. Very annoying.

As for autoaim targeting...use any decent manual weapon and aim straight at the fat red recticle, and tell me it's autoaim.

Shooting range anyone??

stop shoving your "shooting range" idea down our throats

Malphes wrote:

stop shoving your "shooting range" idea down our throats

Stop being so mad lamo.

Suki_Eve wrote:

There is no skill in this game, tbh. The only thing close to skill is "not dying, improving ability with bots" but that's a shitty definition of skill.

Everything is right/left-click harder, while pressing wasd and occasionally spacebar.

I thought I submitted this 30mins ago.

99% win... you forgot that is a Pay4Win... so if you can pay and get all the bots and TUNES! you will be a monster...
also add the air loop or accel roll (this don´t makes you a dodger, just gives you easy dodging) and other items/carts that gives you advantage and easy play (radar cart, homing, full bost, resha nukes, Eris invisibility,Achan homming laser, FC seraping, frame invinsibility, lag attacks like burai, jikuns, seraping tackles, new fish... and others)

but well for the ones that believes on skills on this game I can only see:
- Dodging timing: have the good timing for dodge can help you a lot, but can we call this skill? not good enought.
- Shoting: yes there is some auto aim, but you also must control were to shot but I will not call this skill, just move the mouse, be smart to were to aim, also the auto aim can **** your shots. (I have a video were Epoch buget and I was playing without auto aim using arts.. that was really hard!!!)
- Fly: just fly high, dont get close to enemies shot from far away... this is not a skill, its juist easy play.
- Left Click (melees): they deal a lot of damage, the only skill here is be smart to get to the enemies face without die (but we know, with some good tunes you can do tanks).
- Arts: shot shot shot... this must require smart brains to avoid goint to where you will die.
- Suport: no idea.. just heal?
- Hopper: nothing to say, just hoop, game gives you a lot of imortal frames (I have see hooper inside nukes getting 0 damage)

I must say that more that skills, you just need to be smart and have good tunes (or bots) any bot with full tunes becomes really good. (Try to do a UC hop with 40 tec... you will do a lot of damage!)

dragongx92 wrote:

Malphes wrote:

stop shoving your "shooting range" idea down our throats

Stop being so mad lamo.

i'm not mad, i'm telling you what's the smart thing to do.

dragongx92 wrote:

Malphes wrote:

stop shoving your "shooting range" idea down our throats

Stop being so mad lamo.

??? lamo?

Anyway, there's already the training arena.

Or arcantus.

Suki_Eve wrote:

dragongx92 wrote:

Malphes wrote:

stop shoving your "shooting range" idea down our throats

Stop being so mad lamo.

??? lamo?

Anyway, there's already the training arena.

Or arcantus.

Nothing teaches you to fight like actual combat. That goes for real life too.
At least, in these games, if you fail at fighting when you jump into combat, you don't die for real.

And trying to blast NPCs to train your shooting is useless. The NPCs don't behave at all like real players would.
At least, I don't think I can blast someone with a fucking WBG in the back until they die in the arena.

FireKiller87 wrote:

Suki_Eve wrote:

dragongx92 wrote:

Stop being so mad lamo.

??? lamo?

Anyway, there's already the training arena.

Or arcantus.

Nothing teaches you to fight like actual combat. That goes for real life too.
At least, in these games, if you fail at fighting when you jump into combat, you don't die for real.

And trying to blast NPCs to train your shooting is useless. The NPCs don't behave at all like real players would.
At least, I don't think I can blast someone with a fucking WBG in the back until they die in the arena.

Yeah, but dragong wants a shooting range. .-.

Trying to explain why a shooting range would be pointless when there are already areas like that.

Suki_Eve wrote:

FireKiller87 wrote:

Suki_Eve wrote:

??? lamo?

Anyway, there's already the training arena.

Or arcantus.

Nothing teaches you to fight like actual combat. That goes for real life too.
At least, in these games, if you fail at fighting when you jump into combat, you don't die for real.

And trying to blast NPCs to train your shooting is useless. The NPCs don't behave at all like real players would.
At least, I don't think I can blast someone with a fucking WBG in the back until they die in the arena.

Yeah, but dragong wants a shooting range. .-.

Trying to explain why a shooting range would be pointless when there are already areas like that.

Well, I'll lay it out plainly for him.

Shooting ranges are useless for the same reason that a lot shooting ranges in the real world are designed for sport: they don't simulate real combat.
Like I said, NPCs don't behave even a little like actual players would. The same would go for an actual battle anywhere in the world. The enemy won't just stand still waiting for you to line up the sights and fire your gun, they will be trying as hard as they can to both survive the fight and kill you before you kill them.

Thus, someone who tries to train by using a shooting range is wasting his/her time.

...for reasons I've yet to determine, whenever I try to get into the Step 3 Arena, the game very quickly switches to slideshow mode for it's framerate, making it utterly unplayable and forcing an alt-tab out to Windows Task Manager so I can force-close CB.... *shrug*

Bereft of that, I don't see many team fights open by people I know, so I can't exactly train much on the things I'm weak with...i.e., everything except Support!

...want to be able to trade this Elisa...so freakin' much...just wasting space in my garage, as I'm utterly useless with her....

ITT: MY DEFINITION OF SKILL IS MORE RIGHT THAN YOUR DEFINITION OF SKILL.

Of course there are some skill involved in using everything, even scrub autoplay OP shit, just don't be fooling yourself to think that you are worth a damn with those.

Well my bad for not thinking. Thank you for clarifying the reason. I just thought a shooting range was a cool and fun idea.

reVelske wrote:

ITT: MY DEFINITION OF SKILL IS MORE RIGHT THAN YOUR DEFINITION OF SKILL.

My definition is textbook that means I'm right ok

fuck your shit

Suki_Eve wrote:

dragongx92 wrote:

Malphes wrote:

stop shoving your "shooting range" idea down our throats

Stop being so mad lamo.

??? lamo?

Anyway, there's already the training arena.

Or arcantus.

A shooting range with a flying target would be more useful than training arena and arcantus, as seeing as how bad those places are to test weapons on things that actually move.

Just place a flying "target(s)" (this, any target-able shit that pops some kinda of hit sound) on Resort Area and a couple of targets in the end of the big bridge so we can test the ranges.
But that that would help defining someone's skill anyway.

that isn't going to help you aim at all

It was just a idea.

I think I'm capable of reading, thanks.

OP DAT IS IT ...

OP PLS LISTN NOW KK CUZ U R DUM SO PLS LISTEN 2 ME NOW :

U R GAY OK ?? I PAID GOOD MONEY 2 EXPLOIT INBALANCE AND U INSULT ME . I GOING TO US A RESHA 2 GET THOS DUMB AS ZEROEOS TO CLEANSE ARENA AND FIX ALL BALENCE AND NOW DAT I ROLED SERPAH FC I WILL BE A UC SKILL PLAYPER 2 GET THEM SO IF U DUN LIKE 2 HELP U CAN BE LAZZY AND DUM K

After spending wasting a minute of my life to actually go through the opening post properly, I have to say, it sounds nothing more than a dimwit's attempt to pat himself on the back and convince himself that his autoplay OP crap is "skillful".

SeedZero wrote:

"(insert name of unit) requires no skill" or "(insert player name) have no skill since he using (insert name of unit)" etc... and yet these players or units are the ones with high scores....

How fucking dense can you be to actually bring this up? Getting higher score by using brain-dead easy bots that can do well, score high without the slightest of effort, that somehow translates to them being skillful?

SeedZero wrote:

People complain about some units not needing to aim and such but the truth is everything is really auto aim.

No shit everything is auto-aim, but there is still weapons that require effort to perform well with and weapons that require absolutely no "skill" beyond requiring you to face the general direction of your target.

SeedZero wrote:

If not doing well in the game and others are, then you're doing something wrong.

Do I even need to explain how absolutely brain-numbingly stupid this is?

I PLAY BRAIN DEAD EASY BOT I LOOK PRETTY ON SCOREBOARD I ARE DABES I ARE DOING EVERYTHING RIGHT.

SeedZero wrote:

Many updates to the game changes the meta, which requires you to adapt to it. Adaptation is a important skill, not only to games but to life as well. Complaining about how the game is not balanced will not get you far, it is up to us to balance it ourselves.

Of course we have to adapt, but there is only so much adapting you can do before the imbalance kicks you down and knock your teeth out. There is no amount of "adapting" that will get your Grandum BS to outperform a FC Seraph, there is no amount of "adapting" that will get your Saggi to outperform a Mialy, there is no amount of "adapting" that will stop your wlk-based unit from being utterly annihilated by an Eris aside from staying 5 miles away from them, there is no amount of "adapting" that will get anything you have to do 8k damage+ in an arena match the way FC Seraph and Resha do.

Time to stop living under the illusion that you are worth a shit, autoplay faget. No matter how much kills you get, no matter how hard you hold down your left mouse button and right click harder on mouse2, no matter how pretty you make yourself look on that scoreboard...

You. Still. Worth. Shit.

You see reVelske. You need to get with the times. This is a new age where skill is measured in how well you've tuned your Meluc, how much HP your Eris has, how much you manage to hit things with Monica, and how high your wing moe's DPS is. But even a newb can tune. How high you score in the leaderboards with all the other pro players like koi, Nodochii, Nuadha, and a lot of those other pro guys from GMT separates the noobs from the pros. Anyone saying ANYTHING differently from what I'm saying right now is just butthurt and jelly and will make me "=3" and "lol" when I frag you with utmost skill and proficiency with the bots you wish you had.

EDIT: UC players are horrible freeloaders. It's best to farm them while they're newbies because hitting higher level players is really inefficient because it takes a lot more ammo to hit them because they move around in specific ways (that's how pro they are) that mess with my autoaim guns (I pride myself in my ability to use the autoaim-only bots).

Suguri wrote:

reVelske wrote:

ITT: MY DEFINITION OF SKILL IS MORE RIGHT THAN YOUR DEFINITION OF SKILL.

My definition is textbook that means I'm right ok

fuck your shit

I have to agree with Suguri here

Klinkin wrote:

SeedZero, you make good points, but they quite simply can't and don't apply as much to CosmicBreak as they would to most other games. Skill and meta knowledge both play roles, but in the end, CosmicBreak is host to perhaps the most horrible balance I have ever seen. Quite simply, there are matchups that are almost unwinnable, requiring a huge gap in skill to be even. Some of that is the rock-paper-scissors aspect; any halfway-decent Art player should be able to beat a good air player, all other things equal, but an absurdly large number of bots are just so far above the general balance baselines (insomuch as they actually exist) that someone with a "balanced" bot literally cannot win unless the player with the powerful bot is below-average. Quite simply, this entire thread debates a portion of the game that takes a back seat to luck, deep pockets, and a willingness to feed trolls money.

All true and correct.

Here is an interesting question, would you guys believe poker is a game of skill? Take a look what studies has shown:
http://www.pokernewsdaily.com/study-reveals-poker-is-a-game-of-skill-1724/
There's a big chance factor, considering you can either have a bad cards or your opponents can have a better card. Even when luck it on your side, you can still win using skill. There's a lot of skill involve, in fact the study says poker is 88% skill.

I'm pretty sure everyone can agree that whether skill really matters depends on the situation. Two mentioned scenarios talked about so far are Suguri scenerio and OP scenerio.

Scenario 1 (Suguri) when fighting 1 v 1 against an opponent with similar equipment, skill is what wins the battle. The question is which skills are important for this situation? Which one is more important, physical skill or mental skill?

Scenario 2 (VS OP opponent) when fighting 1 v 1 against an opponent with stronger equipment, skill matters less? Well if you think about it, if you're skilled enough then maybe may be possible to win (and you get the pride of beating something that you shouldn't be able too), which does happen sometimes. If this is possible then which matters more here, physical or mental skill?

If you know you can't win then retreat and fight someone you can win. Don't forget that you might have allies with OP bots as well that can fight back against people you can't win. You can also ambush and attack against that one OP bot. Mialy/Rail-gunners can't win against HD Seraph alone (unless they're really that good) but they can stun/drop Seraph for their allies to finish off.

Think about real life history, we went from fists to sticks/stones to knives/bows/swords to guns to nuclear bombs. The one with better technology usually wins and the people who loses often says it's unfair. At the same time there are some rare cases where those with worse technology or smaller numbers who managed to win. Notice that weapons are getting more extreme over time and it will continue this way on Cosmic Break as well. It may be unfair, but in the end what matters to most is winning and it is human nature to do whatever it takes to win, unfair or not.

I'm trying to stop everyone from complaining about the game, but I hope some players will become better after reading this topic. Take pride on your team winning instead of whether you are on top of the leader-board. You can have an excuse when an OP bot beats you that is understandable, but you can also have a lot of pride on your skills when you're able to beat someone with an OP bot.

SeedZero wrote:

but you can also have a lot of pride on your skills when you're able to beat someone with an OP bot.

MFW he is still trying to pat himself on the back.

SeedZero wrote:

It may be unfair, but in the end what matters to most is winning and it is human nature to do whatever it takes to win, unfair or not.

>what matters

From a personal, ie. SELFISH standpoint, YES. But CB isn't about YOU, isn't about anyone specific. It's a PvP MULTIPLAYER GAME. If you want to feel good about yourself beating things whilst having a significant advantage, go play single player games. Balance and fairness MATTERS. It's about creating a fun and enjoyable environment for EVERYONE, where people can have fun TOGETHER.

But that, that simple concept, is too god damn fucking difficult for some selfish dimwits out there.