IVIS - CBEN might as well release her ...

This game's balance makes perfect sense and ag and tbg made the game more balanced. Before the sugoi girls, there were airs being hit by flying squealers, getting raped by any gunning lnd, and being hit by vanguards sword. AG just reminds the lnds that they are not supposed to be able to defeat airs even though all of the people complaining think that they should be able to. TBG makes airs have less superiority over the arts. Most arts QQing because those airs were raping them, C.S. releases the ultimate homing so the arts can be happy knowing that TBG is getting rid off all those 40 fly bots.

People who complain that bots are OP are just stupid. All of the UC players do NOT realize that this is a TEAM game. That means everyone has a role and they are NOT supposed to be able to defeat every god damn bot on the other team. You're playing a lnd, don't get into a 1v1 vs a fencer. Do what you're supposed to do as a lnd. Find some other lnds on your team and go art hunting. Playing air??? Don't go flying off by yourself to the enemy ps expecting to kill everything on the ground and flying around the enemy ps. Go kill the lnds that are raping your arts because you don't understand the concept of teamwork. Playing art??? Don't go off on your own thinking you are the only one on the front lines. Do what you are good at and take out all of those dumb airs you think that can take out 5 arts sitting under a ps. Reality is that people put themselves into situations where it is obvious where the other bot is easily going to win making you believe they are OP. AG is easily defeated by a team of arts. TBG is easily defeated by 2 or more lnds. Work together with your team and know your role in the match. Once you realize that, you are going realize that OP bots dont really exist.

Now all the UC players are going to say that OP can take out the entire team, but that is just plain bs. They complain that AG kills the entire team, but in reality, they are just picking off the fleeing lnds that think they are pro and try to attack the AG. TBG really just hits all the airs that get to close to her. Watch a good fencer play, and you'll realize they are only attacking the lone arts which should never be happening in the first place. Well the reason this stupidity happens is just human nature. You see someone in a better position than you, and you want to show the others how good you are. You want to say, I just beat a fencer with a blocky, or my sword wing just killed that gay tbg. The thing is, that is not gonna happen yet when I play in arena, thats all that people do. Then they complain how op the other bot is which is just plain stupid.

TL;DR, UC players and some RT players (but not as much) put themselves into situations where they are going to lose 99.9% of the time, and then they complain how OP the other bot is.

lol.

talking about TBG . . . .ridiculous long range + insane homming (no matter if its LND, ART or AIR) and a lol of a large explosion

talking about VF . . . if u`re LND, u just can run away, if u`re fatart, u can just fire and hope the VF have low HP or is noob enough to dont hit you to stun and start a death combo of 3 to 5 hits and what UC do at lvl 8 with high cost and lots of weapons (alpha striker) the OP RT gara bots do with low level, low cost, the same or better stats and dont even need to be alpha striker to do the same damage (so, hell yeah, THIS IS OP against UC bots, take it to higher level and it will become ROP, Ridiculously Over Powered).

other thing, taking back to TBG (will talk about EVE) . . .

ART vs ART . . . TBG have the fire rate + range advantage + area of effect of her homming missile (that have a better homming than any UC homming main or sub weapon) so UC ART vs TBG is always a real pain in the ass with very low chances for the UC bot to beat the TBG
LND vs ART . . . or u get close, unseen, or you`re doomed because those TBG homming missiles will not let you get close that easy (if the guy know when to use the missile or the other weapon to hit you, u`re really dead)
AIR vs ART . . . well, homming, homming, homming, yet I must say that a fast AIR, FLY 32 or higher, have better chances to get close and hunt the TBG down if thats 1x1 but, this if u get to close range, because from far the wide explosions have a high chance to hit you (and stun) before you have a chance to get close enough to troll over the TBG head so its kind of 50% x 50% chance (well, for me, its needed a lot of dodging skills to survive TBG nuke storm)

EVE . . . when the guy know how to use, it can really bring down any bot and survive a lot because of the shield. with high damage + long stun, a good EVE can take down 2 or 3 enemies trying to kill the EVE and its not hard to see (as I said, thats needed skill to do that, yet thats possible only because of the LARGE DAMAGE + LONG STUN with SHIELD combo, also EVE can move as fast as Lily Rain and to fire EVE weapon u dont need to be stopped, what give EVE a great advantage against pure UC Lily Rain, where u need to be an alpha striker to make the same damage, what also mean or u can fire only one shot while moving, then u stop, or u need to stop to fire all weapons, EVE dont because that weapon alone already do a hell of damage + long stun) . . . EVE shield protect a lot from the TBG damage and if EVE is able to stun lock TBG too, making it a bit OP even to TBG yet TBG have chances at range + nuke storm also TBG as alpha striker is something no one want to face at close range


yes, the game is about team work and at teamwork, even if u have only UC bots and weapons, you can try to help or get help from the players using OP bots . . . but :

1 - lots of times team work is something that just doesnt exist on the players dictionary
2 - many times, or u go ahead or u dont do anything (and lol, players are there to play, not to watch and wait for a chance to hit once or twice) so being ahead, your low stats or low damage bot isnt able to either survive much or to do a lot of damage surviving
3 - to hunt down someone that is alone at the enemy team . . . it lead to a 1x1 battle for a time and, then, if thats an OP bot, you know what will happen (sure, the player have the option to flee and wait for another chance, that maybe come just after 3 or 4 battles where he do nothing but watch, try to go ahead and flee again and again . . I dont know you but I wouldnt do that, also other players dont do that, because of what I mentioned at #2 "players are there to play, not to watch and wait for a chance to hit once or twice" )
4 - if the other team is 70% OP bots while the other team is just 30% to 40% OB bots the team have a high chance to be screwed in some minutes because most of the team members will not even be able to survive enough to get close enough to make some damage because of insane missile barrage + AIR and LND trolling over their base at high speed and heavy damage

so, the UC vs RT thing make a lot of difference at gameplay even when its 30x30

IronFist wrote:

ART vs ART . . . TBG have the fire rate + range advantage + area of effect of her homming missile (that have a better homming than any UC homming main or sub weapon) so UC ART vs TBG is always a real pain in the ass with very low chances for the UC bot to beat the TBG
LND vs ART . . . or u get close, unseen, or you`re doomed because those TBG homming missiles will not let you get close that easy (if the guy know when to use the missile or the other weapon to hit you, u`re really dead)
AIR vs ART . . . well, homming, homming, homming, yet I must say that a fast AIR, FLY 32 or higher, have better chances to get close and hunt the TBG down if thats 1x1 but, this if u get to close range, because from far the wide explosions have a high chance to hit you (and stun) before you have a chance to get close enough to troll over the TBG head so its kind of 50% x 50% chance (well, for me, its needed a lot of dodging skills to survive TBG nuke storm)

EVE . . . when the guy know how to use, it can really bring down any bot and survive a lot because of the shield. with high damage + long stun, a good EVE can take down 2 or 3 enemies trying to kill the EVE and its not hard to see (as I said, thats needed skill to do that, yet thats possible only because of the LARGE DAMAGE + LONG STUN with SHIELD combo, also EVE can move as fast as Lily Rain and to fire EVE weapon u dont need to be stopped, what give EVE a great advantage against pure UC Lily Rain, where u need to be an alpha striker to make the same damage, what also mean or u can fire only one shot while moving, then u stop, or u need to stop to fire all weapons, EVE dont because that weapon alone already do a hell of damage + long stun) . . . EVE shield protect a lot from the TBG damage and if EVE is able to stun lock TBG too, making it a bit OP even to TBG yet TBG have chances at range + nuke storm also TBG as alpha striker is something no one want to face at close range

ummm... you're just proving my point of how dumb UC players are most of the time ( I know a couple that are really good). Why would an art get into a 1v1 vs a TBG. Thats not what you should be doing because you know you are going to lose. And 2 lnds can easily take out a tbg in a couple seconds. And why are you talking bout Air 1v1ing TBG. Only someone with a couple of brain cells would try that. TBG = Art > Air, didnt CB explain that to you???? Proving my point even more about how you don't know you're role in the match and you're just being plain stupid. Why you're even talking about 1v1ing an eve with a lily... I just don't get it. Theres absolutely no point to that because Eve is meant for crowd control. Its what she does best while you're probably trying to alpha strike her with your lily when you should be taking care of airs flying around. Let a couple lnds from your team take out the eve. ITS NOT YOUR JOB IF YOUR PLAYING ART OR AIR. I have to thank you for proving my point wonderfully though.

Hagane wrote:

Spoiler:

ummm... you're just proving my point of how dumb UC players are most of the time ( I know a couple that are really good).

Spoiler:

u just missed the rest of my post or it was on purpose just to say I prove your point??

I "kind of" prove your point . . . because that are a lot of situations where you cant avoid to face those OP bots:
- if u`re at the front line you cant "chose" what you`re fighting because thats a lot vs a lot
- if u`re trying to sneak to find some enemy alone for a 1x1 sometimes u cant chose who u`re fighting (dont know iof u ever noticed but Radar just show enemies, dont show the names of the bots or whatever that could help u to know what u will fight against) and TBG have an insane long range and if u get close enough to see TBG, or u go ahead and try to survive to get close enough to fight, or u try your luck trying to dodge while u flee the nuke storm . . if thats EVE, when u see EVE u can get a stun lock + lol damage at your face

so, ART to ART, LND to LND, AIR to AIR . . . its not like "you can chose what u will fight against" . . u can chose after u see, before that u cant, and many times, after u see u dont have the chance to fall back, not without fighting against.

I was able to do my job and even to kill EVEs, TBGs, Fraus, etc with my Izuna, was able to kill EVEs, TBGs, Bynes, VFs and some lol OP bots I dont even know the name (some stuff with a wide and big sword, no its not VF Sephiroth sword, that move fast and I really dont know the name yet) with my Lily and I was also able to kill EVE with my fatart, mostly when I was under my team PS and I could set EVE on fire before EVE had a chance to stun lock me . . sure, I was also able to trollol with Izuna over enemy PS and healing parties and to melee spam to death RT arts and fatarts with Izuna, mostly because of 39 or 40 FLY, yet, its hard as hell to do the job but I think its fun and thats no reason to play without having the fun times.

Hagane wrote:

This game's balance makes perfect sense and ag and tbg made the game more balanced. Before the sugoi girls, there were airs being hit by flying squealers, getting raped by any gunning lnd, and being hit by vanguards sword. AG just reminds the lnds that they are not supposed to be able to defeat airs even though all of the people complaining think that they should be able to. TBG makes airs have less superiority over the arts. Most arts QQing because those airs were raping them, C.S. releases the ultimate homing so the arts can be happy knowing that TBG is getting rid off all those 40 fly bots.

People who complain that bots are OP are just stupid. All of the UC players do NOT realize that this is a TEAM game. That means everyone has a role and they are NOT supposed to be able to defeat every god damn bot on the other team. You're playing a lnd, don't get into a 1v1 vs a fencer. Do what you're supposed to do as a lnd. Find some other lnds on your team and go art hunting. Playing air??? Don't go flying off by yourself to the enemy ps expecting to kill everything on the ground and flying around the enemy ps. Go kill the lnds that are raping your arts because you don't understand the concept of teamwork. Playing art??? Don't go off on your own thinking you are the only one on the front lines. Do what you are good at and take out all of those dumb airs you think that can take out 5 arts sitting under a ps. Reality is that people put themselves into situations where it is obvious where the other bot is easily going to win making you believe they are OP. AG is easily defeated by a team of arts. TBG is easily defeated by 2 or more lnds. Work together with your team and know your role in the match. Once you realize that, you are going realize that OP bots dont really exist.

Now all the UC players are going to say that OP can take out the entire team, but that is just plain bs. They complain that AG kills the entire team, but in reality, they are just picking off the fleeing lnds that think they are pro and try to attack the AG. TBG really just hits all the airs that get to close to her. Watch a good fencer play, and you'll realize they are only attacking the lone arts which should never be happening in the first place. Well the reason this stupidity happens is just human nature. You see someone in a better position than you, and you want to show the others how good you are. You want to say, I just beat a fencer with a blocky, or my sword wing just killed that gay tbg. The thing is, that is not gonna happen yet when I play in arena, thats all that people do. Then they complain how op the other bot is which is just plain stupid.

TL;DR, UC players and some RT players (but not as much) put themselves into situations where they are going to lose 99.9% of the time, and then they complain how OP the other bot is.

U got plenty of stuff wrong there
TBG makes airs have less superiority over the arts. Most arts QQing because those airs were raping them
not true, I fragged several TBGs in a match using Seraph Crimrose (I forgot my sword bit at the time as well). She is just annoying, I dont consider her OP.

Playing air??? Don't go flying off by yourself to the enemy ps expecting to kill everything on the ground and flying around the enemy ps
I know many times, using Byne, when I sat back at my own PS surrounded by my allies, AG can just hover about and snipe the hell outta me. In AIR vs AIR fight, its usually the one with mini zook thats gonna win cuz Blast wep > AIR. This doesn apply for AG. She does 40 DMG to the face of my AIRs and still use dual shields.


UC players and some RT players (but not as much) put themselves into situations where they are going to lose 99.9% of the time, and then they complain how OP the other bot is
Using Byne and sitting under my own PS is losing 99.9% of the time provided that the enemy has AG. Without her, my Byne rocks. But with her around, I'm going AIR cuz I got no choice if I dun wanna be a free frag.

Altho I gotta agree that u gotta go against what ur good at (AIR>LND>ART>AIR)
I do that, now I'm maining AIR and targetting those melee rushers, till AG comes along and ****s everyone
And just cuz Amateus can counter AG doesn make her not OP. Unless every ART has Solar Buster these days

IronFist wrote:

u just missed the rest of my post or it was on purpose just to say I prove your point??

its not cool to ninja edit such big sections....

IronFist wrote:

Spoiler:

Fail brag is fail. Izuna killing eves??? unless that person was a real dumass, i dont see that happening. Killing a byne with ur lily???I'm 100% sure you weren't alone or you were hypershot buffed. Killing a VF can be done with a blocky so I don't know why you would point that out. That big sword is probably red squealer sword or daedalian sword and the only people that use them properly are pro tier so I don't see you killing that either especially since it would be a L land aka a tank. RT arts dont stand a chance against those either so no point in lying. You're Lily would die in seconds.

I thought you would have known, but you do realize you can tell which way people are facing on your radar right??? That makes it a lot easier to ambush/know what you're attacking. And its not like you only use your radar to see. You can see the both from a pretty far distance too. So you can pick your fights wisely. Its not that hard to just attack Arts if you're lnd, or just attack airs if you're art, or just attack lnd if you're air. And Air melee fails, end of story unless you're using something like crescent saint.

@robofranky

this is a team game, and I know that TBG isnt that hard to kill 1v1 since you can actually see her missiles making them easy to dodge. And I know what you mean by lnds being pinned down by AG which is why most of the time I chill with and art protecting them while they protect me from air when I play lnd. With teamwork most "OP" bots are rendered useless. Let the Arts take care of AG. If you be careful you aren't going to ambushed by her and you can avoid her easily. Only the thing is that UC players see people playing these "OP" bots and think they are simple to use but they are not. AG is still air making her extremely fragile to anything. TBG as said before can be killed by anything once you close the distance. VF takes lots of skill just to survive let alone kill anything if you don't just rush into enemy ps dealing only 600 dmg and getting 1100 cost. Dont get me wrong I get kited by AG all the time, but that usually because I have no patience and I just rush in with my VF dying within seconds, but the matches where I am patient, I do 3 times better in terms of score than when I'm rushing like a dumas.

Hagane wrote:

IronFist wrote:

u just missed the rest of my post or it was on purpose just to say I prove your point??

its not cool to ninja edit such big sections....

IronFist wrote:

Spoiler:

Fail brag is fail. Izuna killing eves, tbgs?? unless that person was a real dumass, i dont see that happening. Killing a byne with ur lily???I'm 100% sure you weren't alone or you were hypershot buffed. Killing a VF can be done with a blocky so I don't know why you would point that out. That big sword is probably red squealer sword or daedalian sword and the only people that use them properly are pro tier so I don't see you killing that either especially since it would be a L land aka a tank. RT arts dont stand a chance against those either so no point in lying. You're Lily would die in seconds.

I thought you would have known, but you do realize you can tell which way people are facing on your radar right??? That makes it a lot easier to ambush/know what you're attacking. And its not like you only use your radar to see. You can see the both from a pretty far distance too. So you can pick your fights wisely. Its not that hard to just attack Arts if you're lnd, or just attack airs if you're art, or just attack lnd if you're air. And Air melee fails, end of story unless you're using something like crescent saint.

@robofranky

this is a team game, and I know that TBG isnt that hard to kill 1v1 since you can actually see her missiles making them easy to dodge. And I know what you mean by lnds being pinned down by AG which is why most of the time I chill with and art protecting them while they protect me from air when I play lnd. With teamwork most "OP" bots are rendered useless. Let the Arts take care of AG. If you be careful you aren't going to ambushed by her and you can avoid her easily. Only the thing is that UC players see people playing these "OP" bots and think they are simple to use but they are not. AG is still air making her extremely fragile to anything. TBG as said before can be killed by anything once you close the distance. VF takes lots of skill just to survive let alone kill anything if you don't just rush into enemy ps dealing only 600 dmg and getting 1100 cost. Dont get me wrong I get kited by AG all the time, but that usually because I have no patience and I just rush in with my VF dying within seconds, but the matches where I am patient, I do 3 times better in terms of score than when I'm rushing like a dumas.

As I mentioned before, as LND, I was at my own PS, I was surrounded by allies (including ARTs) but they couldnt do anything to stop AG firing her blasters at me. Only time when I can rush in is when the enemy has no AG. Being patient at my own PS doesn help when they got AG. And AG can hover high up that only Amateus (infinite vertical range) can reach, especially in some places like Green Fields, Ruin Towers and Winter Base.

I'm not using LND atm cuz of her

@robofranky

a team of arts should easily be able to take out AG girl in a couple of seconds especially in green field, relic towers since there are so many high spots for the arts to take advantage of. If a whole team of arts can't take out 1 air, then there's another problem with that isn't there??? And if all else fails, use those fail arts on your teams as meatshields, lol.

Hagane wrote:

@robofranky

a team of arts should easily be able to take out AG girl in a couple of seconds especially in green field, relic towers since there are so many high spots for the arts to take advantage of. If a whole team of arts can't take out 1 air, then there's another problem with that isn't there??? And if all else fails, use those fail arts on your teams as meatshields, lol.

This guy does it the moment she gets in range:

Spoiler:

(Someone uses this build in JP)

Hyoka wrote:

Hagane wrote:

@robofranky

a team of arts should easily be able to take out AG girl in a couple of seconds especially in green field, relic towers since there are so many high spots for the arts to take advantage of. If a whole team of arts can't take out 1 air, then there's another problem with that isn't there??? And if all else fails, use those fail arts on your teams as meatshields, lol.

This guy does it the moment she gets in range:

Spoiler:

(Someone uses this build in JP)

So the options are:
1. Roll royal for Septuple Launchers
or
2. QQ over AGs OPness
or
3. Amateus.

Yup, most of the ARTs are meat shields/free frags. They cant seem to hit her cuz she is either too fast or out of their range. All she needs to do is lift off from one of the high peaks and go spam blasters to anyone down there, even at the PS.

Muchi seems to the the only counter. She's super fast, so the second he gets a lock it charges and booms. Solar buster gives bad booster effect, draining her further. Solar buster is also pure blast.

Brb rollan sugoi when I get some monayz.

RoboFranky wrote:

So the options are:
1. Roll royal for Septuple Launchers
2. QQ over AGs OPness
3. Amateus.

or

4. Either stand near someone playing Nicole Malice or play her yourself

Yup, most of the ARTs are meat shields/free frags. They cant seem to hit her cuz she is either too fast or out of their range. All she needs to do is lift off from one of the high peaks and go spam blasters to anyone down there, even at the PS.

fix'd

Hagane wrote:

People who complain that bots are OP are just stupid. All of the UC players do NOT realize that this is a TEAM game. That means everyone has a role and they are NOT supposed to be able to defeat every god damn bot on the other team. You're playing a lnd, don't get into a 1v1 vs a fencer. Do what you're supposed to do as a lnd. Find some other lnds on your team and go art hunting. Playing air??? Don't go flying off by yourself to the enemy ps expecting to kill everything on the ground and flying around the enemy ps. Go kill the lnds that are raping your arts because you don't understand the concept of teamwork. Playing art??? Don't go off on your own thinking you are the only one on the front lines. Do what you are good at and take out all of those dumb airs you think that can take out 5 arts sitting under a ps. Reality is that people put themselves into situations where it is obvious where the other bot is easily going to win making you believe they are OP. AG is easily defeated by a team of arts. TBG is easily defeated by 2 or more lnds. Work together with your team and know your role in the match. Once you realize that, you are going realize that OP bots dont really exist.

No. No. A million times no. Yes, this is a team game, but the problems mentioned are very rarely brought up in a 1 vs. 1 mindset, this is merely an assumption on your part. In fact, the problem often brought up about Spamguards almost ALWAYS is about team situations. Yes, he is easy to solo well (assuming you're an AIR or are faster enough than it to kite it, otherwise you may be SOL), but the problem people have with him is that he is NOT as easily avoidable in a TEAM situation, where he will likely rip apart anyone who cannot both avoid the Spamguard sneaking around WHILE the opposing team is raining fire on their location. Most of the complaints come from the people with robots not tuned up well enough in the movement department to get the hell out fast enough the second one of them pops around a corner.

Yes, AG is easily defeated by a TEAM of ARTs, but saying a single robot is easily taken down by a TEAM is not defending balance, especially considering that it ALSO has a team. The OP bots shine more in both team AND 1 vs. 1 scenarios than lesser alternatives. When one team has to invest multiples of the robots that are supposed to be naturally superior to that type of bot to even stand a chance of taking it down then there's a problem. When it starts taking 2 or more robots to take down a single robot on the opposing team simply because it is that much superior in build then it begins to strongly handicap your team when more of these robots appear. When you have to focus 5/30 of your team's robots onto a single enemy or they will lay ruin to most of your allies, then that leaves only 25 allies for the other 29 people on the opposing team.

Both teams have AIR bots, but the team with more heavily tuned Alpha Strikers/AGs in their AIR arsenal compared to the other team is going to be advantaged. Same can be said of the team with more Spamguards/Hatigarm Machines/hoppers (and eventually Ivis) in their LND roster, or the team with more EVEs/TBGs in their ART roster.

Hagane wrote:

Now all the UC players are going to say that OP can take out the entire team, but that is just plain bs. They complain that AG kills the entire team, but in reality, they are just picking off the fleeing lnds that think they are pro and try to attack the AG. TBG really just hits all the airs that get to close to her. Watch a good fencer play, and you'll realize they are only attacking the lone arts which should never be happening in the first place. Well the reason this stupidity happens is just human nature. You see someone in a better position than you, and you want to show the others how good you are. You want to say, I just beat a fencer with a blocky, or my sword wing just killed that gay tbg. The thing is, that is not gonna happen yet when I play in arena, thats all that people do. Then they complain how op the other bot is which is just plain stupid.

Again, gross misconception of the problem being argued. They are NOT saying that the bot is singlehandedly taking out their entire team. What is being said is that these builds can require so much attention from so many members of the team that are not using OP builds that it poses a hindrance to the entire team as a whole. Or that these robots are SO powerful that there is simply no escaping them once they target you (this is especially true when playing something not tuned heavily for movement). It's almost sounding as if you're implying that people with better robots are just naturally better players.

Hagane wrote:

TL;DR, UC players and some RT players (but not as much) put themselves into situations where they are going to lose 99.9% of the time, and then they complain how OP the other bot is.

Again, a million times, no. I score really well with UC hopper builds, but I admit that I am heavily carried by my hopper builds (which carried RT players will almost never admit). Very rarely with OP enough builds do you encounter these situations where you 'are going to lose 99.9% of the time' without at least scoring heavy enough points that you'll still rank high by outscoring your cost. I can (and have for countless arena matches) mindlessly run around with 35+ WLK hopping Accel Sabers with a Bazooka/Buckler or dual Bazookas, charging the enemy without thought, regardless of the situation (with the one possible exception of tuned EVEs) while still netting top 5 in arena like 95% of the time (would be even better with K-Shields, RT protected tunes and Respawn Tickets, probably upping to more like 99.5% of the time). However, the intent of these conversations were not as much of a UC vs. RT debate and more of a small list of OP bots vs. everything else (RT and UC included) debate.

Suguri wrote:

I'm still laughing at this. CS didn't "scam" you, you're simply clueless about how tuning works, and on top of that didn't even bother looking when it showed you what the effects on stats would be from the tuneup.

Thirding Kitou and titan on page 1 as well.

im laughing back
u dont get it do you o.O

Hagane wrote:

IronFist wrote:

u just missed the rest of my post or it was on purpose just to say I prove your point??

its not cool to ninja edit such big sections....

lol, no Ninja Edition . . when I edited that was no post (so to avoid double post I edited, also when I finished and posted edit that was no post so if u was reading and posting it is not my fault)

so I asked:
u just missed the rest of my post or it was on purpose just to say I prove your point??

IronFist wrote:

Hagane wrote:

IronFist wrote:

u just missed the rest of my post or it was on purpose just to say I prove your point??

its not cool to ninja edit such big sections....

lol, no Ninja Edition . . when I edited that was no post (so to avoid double post I edited, also when I finished and posted edit that was no post so if u was reading and posting it is not my fault)

so I asked:
u just missed the rest of my post or it was on purpose just to say I prove your point??

I just missed it.....

Vhael wrote:

No. No. A million times no. Yes, this is a team game, but the problems mentioned are very rarely brought up in a 1 vs. 1 mindset, this is merely an assumption on your part. In fact, the problem often brought up about Spamguards almost ALWAYS is about team situations. Yes, he is easy to solo well (assuming you're an AIR or are faster enough than it to kite it, otherwise you may be SOL), but the problem people have with him is that he is NOT as easily avoidable in a TEAM situation, where he will likely rip apart anyone who cannot both avoid the Spamguard sneaking around WHILE the opposing team is raining fire on their location. Most of the complaints come from the people with robots not tuned up well enough in the movement department to get the hell out fast enough the second one of them pops around a corner.

Go to an arena match and just observe. Then watch in awe as you see the amount of 1v1's the arts on your team will get into. And fencer isn't really much of a problem to a lot of people if they would just take a look around most of the time. And tuning shouldn't be an issue. Refer to this guide. https://cosmicbreak.forumotion.com/t3210-guide-to-uc-tuning , UC players can tune enough too if they really cared about surviving a fencer attack, but they don't so that's their own problem.

Vhael wrote:

Again, a million times, no. I score really well with UC hopper builds, but I admit that I am heavily carried by my hopper builds (which carried RT players will almost never admit). Very rarely with OP enough builds do you encounter these situations where you 'are going to lose 99.9% of the time' without at least scoring heavy enough points that you'll still rank high by outscoring your cost. I can (and have for countless arena matches) mindlessly run around with 35+ WLK hopping Accel Sabers with a Bazooka/Buckler or dual Bazookas, charging the enemy without thought, regardless of the situation (with the one possible exception of tuned EVEs) while still netting top 5 in arena like 95% of the time (would be even better with K-Shields, RT protected tunes and Respawn Tickets, probably upping to more like 99.5% of the time). However, the intent of these conversations were not as much of a UC vs. RT debate and more of a small list of OP bots vs. everything else (RT and UC included) debate.

Isn't that what hopper builds, UC or RT, are supposed to do??? Go troll the enemy team. You're just doing you're job on the team which is what you're supposed to be doing, unlike majority of the players in the game ( UC and RT) . And I was always just talking about how AG, TBG, and VF weren't OP. I was merely pointing out that most of the people complaining were UC and why they were. I mean I'll get pissed off when an AG kills me, but I also get pissed off when an Izuna kills me, I main land so I hate those wisp spammers, but you don't see me going OMG, Izuna = OP just because it killed me.

I got no prob with Izuna since AIR>LND
But when it comes to AG, AG(with 2 shields) > other AIRs
The introduction of the SUGOI girls do NOTHING to the AIRs still getting RS punched and the AIR>LND>ART>AIR system
It just makes the game even more broken with the new OP bot, as if EVE wasn enough
I got no prob with fencer, they just melee, I just keep my distance
Keeping ur distance from AG just eases the homing of the blasters, and when u close the distance(as AIR), u realise she's got dual shields and your dead.

RoboFranky wrote:

I got no prob with Izuna since AIR>LND
But when it comes to AG, AG(with 2 shields) > other AIRs
The introduction of the SUGOI girls do NOTHING to the AIRs still getting RS punched and the AIR>LND>ART>AIR system
It just makes the game even more broken with the new OP bot, as if EVE wasn enough
I got no prob with fencer, they just melee, I just keep my distance
Keeping ur distance from AG just eases the homing of the blasters, and when u close the distance(as AIR), u realise she's got dual shields and your dead.

My beam guard raider with zook + buckler is my last resort.

Implying that we both have maximum HP.

Otherwise Im dead with any other thing cept EVE.

Hagane wrote:

Go to an arena match and just observe. Then watch in awe as you see the amount of 1v1's the arts on your team will get into. And fencer isn't really much of a problem to a lot of people if they would just take a look around most of the time. And tuning shouldn't be an issue. Refer to this guide. https://cosmicbreak.forumotion.com/t3210-guide-to-uc-tuning , UC players can tune enough too if they really cared about surviving a fencer attack, but they don't so that's their own problem.

UC bot . . . u tune up, u cant have lots of weapons to do a good damage (because of CAPA)
RT bot . . . u tune up and u remain able to do a good damage (be it with an OP weapon or with lots of RT weapons because RT gara bots have low cost but can have a good CAPA, what mean they are already OP at damage at low cost and are able to use carts and tune up AND to remain doing a lot of damage)
there is the main difference . . .

Hagane wrote:

Isn't that what hopper builds, UC or RT, are supposed to do??? Go troll the enemy team. You're just doing you're job on the team which is what you're supposed to be doing, unlike majority of the players in the game ( UC and RT) . And I was always just talking about how AG, TBG, and VF weren't OP. I was merely pointing out that most of the people complaining were UC and why they were. I mean I'll get pissed off when an AG kills me, but I also get pissed off when an Izuna kills me, I main land so I hate those wisp spammers, but you don't see me going OMG, Izuna = OP just because it killed me.

yes, I agree . . .

now, u take something like TBG or EVE, where if u go AIR, LND or ART, being UC, u`re always in danger and with very low chances of surviving (lower chance if u want to have chance to survive enough to kill), be it close combat or long range. same goes for Byne (Red Squealer AMs dont deal good against Byne or VF, also Byne is able to pursue and hit AIRs and is also good to hit ART, sure), Frau (oh, Frau melee combo is weak, but is stun locking and Frau dont need to be slow, what make it hard as hell to be able to dodge for 1 minute or more to be able to kill Frau with a fast AIR bot), and an amazing combo of weapons some M and S AIR bots can have that have such a great fire rate + stun that even 400 HP isnt able to survive 2 or 3 seconds of this (and pure UC bots cant even think to do the same, it look like a destructor with 2 Misside AMs + 2 2 Way Missile under a PS and spamming missiles . . . sure, the AIR bot isnt spamming missiles but the fire rate is almost the same and with lots of weapons)


also, as I already said . . . its team play so UC bots have chance to do something with the team, but that are lots of situations where u cant avoid to face, alone, the OP bots, also some situations, like when your team is being pwned or when your team is attacking and you`re at the front line, you cant chose who u fight against or how many will attack you.

shinigami wrote:

RoboFranky wrote:

I got no prob with Izuna since AIR>LND
But when it comes to AG, AG(with 2 shields) > other AIRs
The introduction of the SUGOI girls do NOTHING to the AIRs still getting RS punched and the AIR>LND>ART>AIR system
It just makes the game even more broken with the new OP bot, as if EVE wasn enough
I got no prob with fencer, they just melee, I just keep my distance
Keeping ur distance from AG just eases the homing of the blasters, and when u close the distance(as AIR), u realise she's got dual shields and your dead.

My beam guard raider with zook + buckler is my last resort.

Implying that we both have maximum HP.

Otherwise Im dead with any other thing cept EVE.

she's got 2 shields, u got 1.
Her Homing blaster = 40 dmg to AIR, reduced a bit by ur beam guard
Ur zook = 30-40 dmg
Still, she can fly faster thnks to her ability, the boost/whatever. And for a longer duration

Hagane wrote:

Go to an arena match and just observe. Then watch in awe as you see the amount of 1v1's the arts on your team will get into. And fencer isn't really much of a problem to a lot of people if they would just take a look around most of the time. And tuning shouldn't be an issue. Refer to this guide. https://cosmicbreak.forumotion.com/t3210-guide-to-uc-tuning , UC players can tune enough too if they really cared about surviving a fencer attack, but they don't so that's their own problem.

Just because there are a lot of idiots dying doesn't mean that the issues at hand are non-existent. Observe an arena match and watch how many ARTs that stand back and play smarter (you may have to look around more as I'll admit smart people are the minority these days) STILL get killed by a single AIR that can just fly through enemy lines, take out the target in no time at all and then get out of there with little to no risk (Air Loop anyone?). And I know it is easy to speed tune a robot, but that doesn't change the fact that not EVERYONE wants to join the bandwagon and tune that one stat. It can be fun for some people to be able to mess around tuning other stats (like maxing STR/TGH on a Byne for example), but having bots like VF/bajillion damage Alpha Strikers/AG (based on your movement speed for the most part) and eventually Ivis that will rape anyone that has to touch ground that plays around with any stat other than WLK (essentially so you can hopefully escape the inevitable rape) can really kill that fun factor for a lot of people (hence why a lot of people likely complain about them). It's not so much an issue that these robots can kill you, it's that once they target you you will die with essentially zero chance of retreat (hence killing the argument of 'just run away when you see these bots'). Is it easy to kill a Spamguard when you have an AIR bot, or to kill a Spamguard with a hopper tuned for more WLK? Yes, yes it is, but not everybody wants to play those robots, and you don't always get the favorable scenario of seeing it coming (especially in the midst of a team battle).

I used to find the arena matches more fun when your chances of survival were higher the more careful you played and if you retreated when you were remotely low on HP. That becomes less of a reasonable tactic when standing back reduces your score by more than just dying and getting back into the fight or when you die from full -> 0 HP in less than 3 seconds anyway.

Hagane wrote:

Isn't that what hopper builds, UC or RT, are supposed to do??? Go troll the enemy team. You're just doing you're job on the team which is what you're supposed to be doing, unlike majority of the players in the game ( UC and RT) . And I was always just talking about how AG, TBG, and VF weren't OP. I was merely pointing out that most of the people complaining were UC and why they were. I mean I'll get pissed off when an AG kills me, but I also get pissed off when an Izuna kills me, I main land so I hate those wisp spammers, but you don't see me going OMG, Izuna = OP just because it killed me.

When the robot is so powerful, hopper or not, that you can go "troll the enemy team" without an ounce of thought into what you're doing, and STILL come out on top, then that should NOT just be what the build is "supposed to do". Hoppers are not the only builds can can mindlessly rank at the top either, it's just they're the ones I have the most experience with as they're so dirt cheap to make in comparison to the other OP builds.

I'll agree that VF is not OP as long as you're AIR or on the bandwagon for the other few good builds out there. I'll agree MAYBE TBG is not OP, although she is still by far better than almost every other option out there, especially vs. AIR as she is one of the few with an internal weapon that can actually HIT them. AG is likely just OP. The fact that she has an internal weapon that is essentially better than any other selectable weapon while leaving both AMs open, and that she has an internal that increases her movement speed to further reduce your chances of getting away from the inevitable rape, all while easily having enough CAPA to tune 40 FLY seems a little imbalanced in comparison to other options out there (and just because it's funny, Aquila Girl has more TGH than Aquila, making him look more like a little bitch).

And bots don't really become OP just because they can kill people. What makes these bots OP is that they WILL kill you, guaranteed, with little to no chance of escape, regardless of how good you are at the game, and often regardless of how many allies you have with you (unless you have like half of your team on this one target), unless you have a similarly OP bot or 40 FLY/WLK to turn around and get the hell out of there before the imminent robot sodomization that is about to take place (which is as soon as they are visible on your screen).

conclusion: people who said sugoi girls/fencer/eve are not op, depend on builds, team game obviously have not fougth 5 TBG, 3 AG and 3 eve and 3 fencers in a team. oh, and your team has none of those bots mentioned but some of the extra alpha build bots and hoppers. you can have more skillful star ranks than the other team, i dont care.


i really like to see how you gonna use any bots fighting them


i really want to see how you gonna dodge 25 nuke missiles when you solo 5 tbg with a lily rain while your team is getting raped by fencers, eve and ah chan at spawn

i really want to see how you gonna run away from fencers in an art in that situation

i really wanna see how you gonna fly an air bot without taking damage killing ah chans with their 5 TBG

i really wana see how you gonna play a lnd with at least 1 fencer and 1 AG kissing you

show me that your team WON

make a video, show me if you are lucky enough to enter such room. because i did entered such a room.

Vigi wrote:

conclusion: people who said sugoi girls/fencer/eve are not op, depend on builds, team game obviously have not fougth 5 TBG, 3 AG and 3 eve and 3 fencers in a team. oh, and your team has none of those bots mentioned but some of the extra alpha build bots and hoppers. you can have more skillful star ranks than the other team, i dont care.


i really like to see how you gonna use any bots fighting them


i really want to see how you gonna dodge 25 nuke missiles when you solo 5 tbg with a lily rain while your team is getting raped by fencers, eve and ah chan at spawn

i really want to see how you gonna run away from fencers in an art in that situation

i really wanna see how you gonna fly an air bot without taking damage killing ah chans with their 5 TBG

i really wana see how you gonna play a lnd with at least 1 fencer and 1 AG kissing you

show me that your team WON

make a video, show me if you are lucky enough to enter such room. because i did entered such a room.

THIS^

Vigi wrote:

conclusion: people who said sugoi girls/fencer/eve are not op, depend on builds, team game obviously have not fougth 5 TBG, 3 AG and 3 eve and 3 fencers in a team. oh, and your team has none of those bots mentioned but some of the extra alpha build bots and hoppers. you can have more skillful star ranks than the other team, i dont care.


i really like to see how you gonna use any bots fighting them


i really want to see how you gonna dodge 25 nuke missiles when you solo 5 tbg with a lily rain while your team is getting raped by fencers, eve and ah chan at spawn

i really want to see how you gonna run away from fencers in an art in that situation

i really wanna see how you gonna fly an air bot without taking damage killing ah chans with their 5 TBG

i really wana see how you gonna play a lnd with at least 1 fencer and 1 AG kissing you

show me that your team WON

make a video, show me if you are lucky enough to enter such room. because i did entered such a room.

Been to a room like that. IT WAS HELL
I didn get VFs tho, but EVE + AG is bad enough.
Homing blasters from above, 70 DMG EVE blasts.

To prove that the entire game is balanced
I'd like to see the team use pure UC builds against the OP team

RoboFranky wrote:

Vigi wrote:

conclusion: people who said sugoi girls/fencer/eve are not op, depend on builds, team game obviously have not fougth 5 TBG, 3 AG and 3 eve and 3 fencers in a team. oh, and your team has none of those bots mentioned but some of the extra alpha build bots and hoppers. you can have more skillful star ranks than the other team, i dont care.


i really like to see how you gonna use any bots fighting them


i really want to see how you gonna dodge 25 nuke missiles when you solo 5 tbg with a lily rain while your team is getting raped by fencers, eve and ah chan at spawn

i really want to see how you gonna run away from fencers in an art in that situation

i really wanna see how you gonna fly an air bot without taking damage killing ah chans with their 5 TBG

i really wana see how you gonna play a lnd with at least 1 fencer and 1 AG kissing you

show me that your team WON

make a video, show me if you are lucky enough to enter such room. because i did entered such a room.

Been to a room like that. IT WAS HELL
I didn get VFs tho, but EVE + AG is bad enough.
Homing blasters from above, 70 DMG EVE blasts.

To prove that the entire game is balanced
I'd like to see the team use pure UC builds against the OP team

I could "survive", with my FLY 40 Izuna, TBG nuke storm with an EVE trying to target me and a Frau following me and I survived enough to take back and check wtf was tkat thing using a nuke storm against me (that I saw a small moe bot throwing missiles nonstop then asked here and was said THAT was TBG) . . . taking back I was shot by 100 damage + stun but I still could survive somehow (maybe when I was stunned Frau lost me from sight and I landed behind something that protected me from nuke storm and EVE shots) . . .

yet, surviving dont mean u`re able to make damage . . . just that u`re able to dodge (you know, plasma weapons dont have that LONG range to hit TBG or EVE from far enough for you to be able to dodge . . . just TBG you`re able to get close and keep dodge if the TBG isnt Alpha Striker, but when thats an EVE around with a Frau following your Izuna, the bets you can do is survive and get the hell out of there without attacking anyone)