IVIS - CBEN might as well release her ...

Vigi wrote:

conclusion: people who said sugoi girls/fencer/eve are not op, depend on builds, team game obviously have not fougth 5 TBG, 3 AG and 3 eve and 3 fencers in a team. oh, and your team has none of those bots mentioned but some of the extra alpha build bots and hoppers. you can have more skillful star ranks than the other team, i dont care.


i really like to see how you gonna use any bots fighting them


i really want to see how you gonna dodge 25 nuke missiles when you solo 5 tbg with a lily rain while your team is getting raped by fencers, eve and ah chan at spawn

i really want to see how you gonna run away from fencers in an art in that situation

i really wanna see how you gonna fly an air bot without taking damage killing ah chans with their 5 TBG

i really wana see how you gonna play a lnd with at least 1 fencer and 1 AG kissing you

show me that your team WON

make a video, show me if you are lucky enough to enter such room. because i did entered such a room.

This. This is why I get annoyed when people narrow it down to just 'noobs complaining about losing in 1 vs. 1s'. It's like I mentioned earlier to the response of this being a 'team game', the enemy has a team as well. When they have both an OP bot AND teammates, and you just have teammates, they STILL have a heavy advantage, especially as they begin to build up more copies of OP robots. Saying that 2 ARTs can take down an AG or that 2 LNDs can take down a TBG or that a zerg rush can take down an EVE starts to become less viable when the opposing team has multiple copies of these robots.

RoboFranky wrote:

I'd like to see the team use pure UC builds against the OP team

Seeing as how RT builds SHOULD be at least a bit better than UC builds for financial purposes, lets try to keep this from being an RT vs. UC thing and make it more, "I'd like to see a team with nothing but the most OP builds (Spamguards/Hoppers/K-Shield Hatigarm Machines on the ground, AGs/Alpha Strikers in the sky, and TBGs/EVE/heavy RT Lily Rain variants covering them, etc.) versus ANY other builds. Not actually saying Spamguard is OP in that comment, just that there are very few things I would prefer to have covering LND for my team.

IronFist wrote:

yet, surviving dont mean u`re able to make damage . . . just that u`re able to dodge (you know, plasma weapons dont have that LONG range to hit TBG or EVE from far enough for you to be able to dodge . . . just TBG you`re able to get close and keep dodge if the TBG isnt Alpha Striker, but when thats an EVE around with a Frau following your Izuna, the bets you can do is survive and get the hell out of there without attacking anyone)

That's pretty much the situation if your enemies have OP bots and you do not/your team does not have nearly as many. 40 FLY or 40 WLK are necessary for a CHANCE to survive, but even though high movement stats are easily obtainable, without even remotely equivalent firepower it brings you nothing more than the ability to survive a little longer than your allies. Facing imbalanced robots while using robots that ARE NOT heavily tuned for movement just becomes hell as you'll be constantly stun-locked to death in <.5 seconds every time an enemy spots you.

So everyone's complaining now about how the other team has a million "OP" bots, but whenever I arena, which I do frequently, both teams have AG's, TBG's, VF's, Eve's if you play in any room thats Grade A or higher. (waiting for someone to show me one match thats grade A and there's no "OP" bots on their side, thinking that will make it true for all the rooms)Thats why this game is completely balanced. If only a small population had AG or TBG, then they could be considered OP, but since almost every RT player which is like 80% of the player base has one of them, they can't really be considered gamebreaking. You're claiming the "OP" bots have a team, but then you must realize that YOU are also the team for the "OP" bots on your side. Only exception is Eve since that is the one bot that could actually be considered OP because of how few of them there are in arena. If you have no "OP" bots in your room, tough luck, find another room if all you can do is complain.

Hagane wrote:

So everyone's complaining now about how the other team has a million "OP" bots, but whenever I arena, which I do frequently, both teams have AG's, TBG's, VF's, Eve's if you play in any room thats Grade A or higher. (waiting for someone to show me one match thats grade A and there's no "OP" bots on their side, thinking that will make it true for all the rooms)Thats why this game is completely balanced. If only a small population had AG or TBG, then they could be considered OP, but since almost every RT player which is like 80% of the player base has one of them, they can't really be considered gamebreaking. You're claiming the "OP" bots have a team, but then you must realize that YOU are also the team for the "OP" bots on your side. Only exception is Eve since that is the one bot that could actually be considered OP because of how few of them there are in arena. If you have no "OP" bots in your room, tough luck, find another room if all you can do is complain.

Well the only reason the whole team issue was brought up is that some people seem to imply that being able to gang up on an OP bot with 20% of your team somehow balances it out. In a game with so many options, when EVERY room has a bunch of AGs, TBGs, VFs and EVEs (don't forget Alpha Strikers and hoppers) running around, and that these bots are pretty much always the ones controlling the flow of the match, then that's a good indicator that they are NOT balanced. When the game requires you to play from less than 10 options from hundreds of possibilities to not only do decent, but to even stand a chance of doing anything at all, then there's a balance problem. Yes, no game is perfectly balanced, but there comes a point when things are so overwhelmingly powerful that it just becomes too much (anyone up for a game of Street Akuma Fighter 2 Turbo?). In competitive gaming (which you would assume an arena game that is played primarily for its PvP would fall into) this is where nerfs/bans begin to take effect; however, this game seems to care so little for balance that it seems to intentionally create overpowered robots (which renders anything else useless).

Saying it's balanced because everyone has access to it is pretty much a cop-out response. Yes, everyone has access to them, but does everyone want to use the same robot as everyone else? It wouldn't be as bad if these OP bots were just a tiny bit better, or gave a slight advantage to the user, but the problem remains that they just overshadow other options so badly that all you're left with is either choose OP, feed the opposing team, or not contribute to the match at all. This game may as well just remove the customization and just make a few selectable characters.

Vhael wrote:

Well the only reason the whole team issue was brought up is that some people seem to imply that being able to gang up on an OP bot with 20% of your team somehow balances it out. In a game with so many options, when EVERY room has a bunch of AGs, TBGs, VFs and EVEs (don't forget Alpha Strikers and hoppers) running around, and that these bots are pretty much always the ones controlling the flow of the match, then that's a good indicator that they are NOT balanced. When the game requires you to play from less than 10 options from hundreds of possibilities to not only do decent, but to even stand a chance of doing anything at all, then there's a balance problem. Yes, no game is perfectly balanced, but there comes a point when things are so overwhelmingly powerful that it just becomes too much (anyone up for a game of Street Akuma Fighter 2 Turbo?). In competitive gaming (which you would assume an arena game that is played primarily for its PvP would fall into) this is where nerfs/bans begin to take effect; however, this game seems to care so little for balance that it seems to intentionally create overpowered robots (which renders anything else useless).

Saying it's balanced because everyone has access to it is pretty much a cop-out response. Yes, everyone has access to them, but does everyone want to use the same robot as everyone else? It wouldn't be as bad if these OP bots were just a tiny bit better, or gave a slight advantage to the user, but the problem remains that they just overshadow other options so badly that all you're left with is either choose OP, feed the opposing team, or not contribute to the match at all. This game may as well just remove the customization and just make a few selectable characters.

It's obvious that some bots will be stronger than the others, but to me OP means being able to take out half the team with no effort. Most people say that using AG or TBG is hacks aiming, but give it to someone thats only been playing CB for a week and they are not going to do as good as you think they would. AG is still an air still making her extremely fragile. TBG is still an art making her extremely weak to melee. There are still a multitude of options for you to do to do good in the game. Also games are supposed to have counters where you are not supposed to be able to defeat someone. Melee lnd vs air was the only thing that really followed this making the game imbalanced for all of the other match-ups. As I said before in a previous statement, Air could easily kill Art before, but with TBG, that makes it a lot harder.

Alright, since I have a feeling this is just going to go back and forth since it seems like both of us aren't going to change our views. Let's just let this end here by agreeing to disagree.

Hagane wrote:

It's obvious that some bots will be stronger than the others, but to me OP means being able to take out half the team with no effort.

lol, so OP for you is just Godly bot (like to compare a team made of pure starter bots played by stones and circles against a star ranked player playing with a heavly tuned up + alpha strike UC or RT bot (only way someone would be able to beat 15 players alone without much trouble)

OP mean Over Power, Over Power mean Over all the Power the other bot can reach (same size, type and cost but different weapons, maybe a lot more weapons) . . . u dont need to 1 left click then nuke half a team to death to be called OP. just the fact all u need to beat a bot is right or left click, maybe both at the same time, and most of the time u dont even need to move (EVE and TBG) or all u need is to walk around and spam right click (fencer, byne . . . ) without much aim and care because the weapon deal with it (better aim/homming at better range and speed for a better fire rate/combo with more chances to stun) with same stats for lower cost or better stats + much more damage for the same cost . . .

as you consider only something Godly as OP, look like all u use are OP bots so for you thats no OP bot as you also use OP bots (try any situation mentioned by other players, me included, like Izuna (pure UC) VS Frau/TBG/EVE or Lily Rain (pure UC) VS TBG/EVE/(or any AIR bot with RT weapons) or Shino/Jikun/Red Squealer(pure UC) VS Byne or Fencer (here your only chance is 1x1 and if you have better walk and if u`re not a melee spammer, or else you have to be good at melee spam and have the luck to start your combo and use this combo to kill).

the OP RT gara bots are OP against a lot of RT bots that once were considered OP against UC bots . . . think what these OP RT gara bots are compared to UC bots (even more OP but far from Godly)

Lemme just point out that a Float Dash Lily Rain is a pain in the ass to kill if you don't melee it. You don't need RT parts for it, just UC tune some alternates and hit 25-30 FLY. It's quite reasonable to have a Lily tear apart AIR units with RT weapons, and Float Dash evades TBG missiles. You probably won't kill the TBG, but it probaby won't kill you either. EVE... why the hell would you go up against a "promoted" form of your bot without some crazy OP weaponry on you?

For a pure UC "rape-in-a-box" bot, look at Scorpton! Put Winberyl AMs on it, equip elecguns, Alpha Strike. The stun+knockback effect on the BD+weapons counteracts the draw of the 'beryl AMs, resulting in an unescapeable combo (unless you firepillar/hurricane blast) as long as you land a single round! I managed to lock a Hatigarm in MIDAIR AGAINST A WALL on Relic Towers, even without the Winberyl AMs. It just hung there, being juggled by the stun. I've used it to kill TBG/EVE/VF and others a lot of times. Literally the only thing that stops it once it gets in range is shielding.

Iseal wrote:

Lemme just point out that a Float Dash Lily Rain is a pain in the ass to kill if you don't melee it. You don't need RT parts for it, just UC tune some alternates and hit 25-30 FLY. It's quite reasonable to have a Lily tear apart AIR units with RT weapons, and Float Dash evades TBG missiles. You probably won't kill the TBG, but it probaby won't kill you either. EVE... why the hell would you go up against a "promoted" form of your bot without some crazy OP weaponry on you?

For a pure UC "rape-in-a-box" bot, look at Scorpton! Put Winberyl AMs on it, equip elecguns, Alpha Strike. The stun+knockback effect on the BD+weapons counteracts the draw of the 'beryl AMs, resulting in an unescapeable combo (unless you firepillar/hurricane blast) as long as you land a single round! I managed to lock a Hatigarm in MIDAIR AGAINST A WALL on Relic Towers, even without the Winberyl AMs. It just hung there, being juggled by the stun. I've used it to kill TBG/EVE/VF and others a lot of times. Literally the only thing that stops it once it gets in range is shielding.

Or you could just replace Scorpton with Tarantulic and achieve much more awesome results.

And yes, Moving Burst-Float Dash UC Lily Rain ftw. Slap a Handy Zook and a Beam Rifle on her and you'd pretty much own anyone. Do it with starter Lily for more dramatic ownage effect.

Game warrior everytime.

Well, yeah, 'cept the Tarantulic is dependant on the ammo of the 'beryl AMs, Scorpton can troll shit even without them. They're only to prolong the pain.

That's where the magic of Taran BD comes in. Alpha strike with dual pulse guns, stun people for a sure hit with slow webbing, enemy gets slow status, alpha strike some more.

Add more annoyance by tuning it with WLK for Boost Run and Sway/Short Boost. Slap in Broad Radar for more lulz.

You have to get in close/draw them in with Winberyl AM. What happens when it runs out mid kill?

Vigi wrote:

conclusion: people who said sugoi girls/fencer/eve are not op, depend on builds, team game obviously have not fougth 5 TBG, 3 AG and 3 eve and 3 fencers in a team. oh, and your team has none of those bots mentioned but some of the extra alpha build bots and hoppers. you can have more skillful star ranks than the other team, i dont care.


i really like to see how you gonna use any bots fighting them


i really want to see how you gonna dodge 25 nuke missiles when you solo 5 tbg with a lily rain while your team is getting raped by fencers, eve and ah chan at spawn

i really want to see how you gonna run away from fencers in an art in that situation

i really wanna see how you gonna fly an air bot without taking damage killing ah chans with their 5 TBG

i really wana see how you gonna play a lnd with at least 1 fencer and 1 AG kissing you

show me that your team WON

make a video, show me if you are lucky enough to enter such room. because i did entered such a room.

Why would you want to enter such a room in the first place? Unless you're out of rooms to join in, is joining for clan tourney faggotry, trust your UC bot builds, or just plain stupid, I don't see any point in bringing such a situation up.

Iseal: You hop while alpha striking. I don't see any problem with running out of drawgun ammo. Plus a fine-tuned Tarantulic with an adequate amount of WLK can just run away and scavenge for supplies.

Edit: Actually, since Tarantulics don't have Moving Burst, and any seasoned hopper wouldn't need Moving Burst to hop-alpha properly (even though not having Quick Land will be a pain), you can screw getting Sway.

Iseal wrote:

Lemme just point out that a Float Dash Lily Rain is a pain in the ass to kill if you don't melee it. You don't need RT parts for it, just UC tune some alternates and hit 25-30 FLY. It's quite reasonable to have a Lily tear apart AIR units with RT weapons, and Float Dash evades TBG missiles. You probably won't kill the TBG, but it probaby won't kill you either. EVE... why the hell would you go up against a "promoted" form of your bot without some crazy OP weaponry on you?

For a pure UC "rape-in-a-box" bot, look at Scorpton! Put Winberyl AMs on it, equip elecguns, Alpha Strike. The stun+knockback effect on the BD+weapons counteracts the draw of the 'beryl AMs, resulting in an unescapeable combo (unless you firepillar/hurricane blast) as long as you land a single round! I managed to lock a Hatigarm in MIDAIR AGAINST A WALL on Relic Towers, even without the Winberyl AMs. It just hung there, being juggled by the stun. I've used it to kill TBG/EVE/VF and others a lot of times. Literally the only thing that stops it once it gets in range is shielding.

u skip the part where most of the time, at Union War battle, u cant chose what u will fight against and, if an EVE see you, or u see and EVE, its hard to have time to flee before you get stunned and taking a lol of heavy damage . . same goes for other bots.

about Lily float dash . . . true true, I have one (yet, to make it worth is needed an alpha strike and to be alpha striker with Lily its high cost and, lol, u cant have the 20-25 FLY (you can, but then u cant have proper TEC and TGH, what mean TEC and TGH at 15-20 with Lily at lvl 8 and, lol, no, its not easy to dodge TBG homming missiles with that because the small time you waste when u land with your Lily when using float dash . . . )

about Lily killing AIR bots with that, yes, true again, yet, again, thats needed alpha strike and you cant allow AIR bot to get close to you or you`re screwed while the AIR bot is trolling over your head so, thats not the best idea if u`re alone.


fact is . . . when people talk about team play they talk like:

1 - if everyone on the team is working for the team
2 - if everyone on the team is good enough to help you
3 - if everyone on the team is there just to cover you
4 - if everyone on the team would be able to fight only the bots they are good against

while team play usually is more like:

1 - most of the team is not working for the team but playing solo
2 - most of the team is not good enough to help you
3 - most of the team is not there to cover you (yet they request your assistance and when u get there to help they find u a good cover to flee while u take all damage for them)
4 - most of the team is not able to fight the bots they are good against (so they fight whatever come in their way)

Wait, AIR bot over head=dead on a LILY RAIN? Psygun spam+movement, and you don't need an Alpha Strike to kill an AIR. Just use a Micro Bazooka and chase it. Also, if you're in a non-epoch, you CAN choose what to fight against. Just run when you see something you can't kill. Drag it into your side and watch as your allies either kill it, or run screaming like little girls. If they run, just get a new team. X__X

Shance, I was assuming it was a non-hopping thing. If you put in hopping, the whole playing field becomes a LOT more even. When you hop, it's VERY player skill based on determining the win. You do have a point on the Tarantulic thing though. I'd still use Scorpton for the ability to use whatever gun I want, as the BD stuns at a crazy rate already. Micro Bazookas/WBG are what I'm looking at, personally.

Ironfist: Typical WIZerg behavior.

Iseal: Whatever works for you, mate. Doesn't change the fact that drawguns are awesome, and that UC can be OP even if it's SUP.

Iseal wrote:

Wait, AIR bot over head=dead on a LILY RAIN? Psygun spam+movement, and you don't need an Alpha Strike to kill an AIR. Just use a Micro Bazooka and chase it. Also, if you're in a non-epoch, you CAN choose what to fight against. Just run when you see something you can't kill. Drag it into your side and watch as your allies either kill it, or run screaming like little girls. If they run, just get a new team. X__X

Shance, I was assuming it was a non-hopping thing. If you put in hopping, the whole playing field becomes a LOT more even. When you hop, it's VERY player skill based on determining the win. You do have a point on the Tarantulic thing though. I'd still use Scorpton for the ability to use whatever gun I want, as the BD stuns at a crazy rate already. Micro Bazookas/WBG are what I'm looking at, personally.

lol, by what u said that Lily dont need alpha strike to kill AIR . . . u for sure isnt talking about the AIR bots with so many weapons and stun lock to kill your lily in 3 or 4 seconds . . . not to mention that u can dodge psygun and psygun homming isnt perfect, less against fast AIR bots so u need something not homming to hit the AIR bot (better with effect, like burning . . . I love my Volcano Grenade so much ) yet, even taking damage and burning, thats anti-burning, many times the bot dont get stunned (most of the times but lets say just many) and if u dont make a heavy damage the AIR bot will only fly over your head and trollol you to death.

you CAN chose what to fight against IF you have the chance . . . bots like EVE and TBG, as you see them they also see you and the weapon range is enough to hit u (TBG weapon have a range to hit you far from your view giving you no chance to flee or to move forward if u see the TBG as if u try to fleet, you will be followed by fast insane-homming lol-range nukes), also, if someone is already chasing you, be it at front line or back, be it you`re alone or not, your options are "try to flee somewhere else" or "fight against" . . . sometimes the option to "flee somewhere else" is bad as the team usually or ignore or just cant kill the fast AIR/LND chasing you and if u stand to fight you will find out, many times, that the bot folowing you is able to kill you in just some seconds.

about ARTs, if your team is attacking or if enemy team is atacking, and u`re there, you cant just "choose" if u want to fight the ART or not if the ART is already attacking you . . . the best you can do is to back some steps and hope you have the chance to do that.

now, taking back to reality, when people are fightingm they are fighting . . if enemy team is attacking, at your spawn point, if u try to run away you just become a free kill because u will not have 1 bot running for you but some 3 or 4, sometimes halth the enemy team, attacking you. if thats attack, lol, if u cant go and attack, where your option is to stay behind and wait for th perfect situation against the bot you`re good against, so u will not play, u will just watch for some 3 to 6 battles untill your time to do something come.
(how the hell u think my Izuna already killed EVEs, TBGs, Fraus and some others? also my Lily that already killed Amateus, EVE and one or two TBGs alone in the field . . . sure, being 2 or 3x1 even me, even being a bad melee spammer, could kill byne and VF with my shino using Red Squealer AMs . . . even being able to kill those bots dont make then less OP)

Lily Rain Psyguns don't home like EVE's, they just turn a little towards the target. You can put a ton of them in the air with both internals, making it hard to fly. Alphags can be beaten by just Float Dashing sideways and shooting them while they put their weapons away. You CAN choose to not fight EVE/TBG. TBG missiles aren't that fast, my Geograsis can dodge them while shooting at the TBG. It only has 31 FLY, and it's not a tiny target. EVE takes a while to lock on, and is 300 base range. That goes to 390 with 3x High Shooter, which is still within viewing distance. EVE isn't even that hard to dodge anyways. Just use a dash when she fires, which 99% of the time is right when she achieves the desired number of lock-ons, whether it's 2 for speed or 3 for lolfacesmashingdmg.

The most "OP" bots are usually NOT what you'd expect. EVE/TBG/VF really can only do a few things, and they don't really get too much better at them. In a 1v1 (yeah right, when's THAT ever happen) my Lazflamme tears TBG up, kites fencers, and ends pretty even with EVE if I don't rush it. With your example of heavily loaded AIRs, they don't have to be rare, top ball garapon prizes either. You can make one out of a freakin' BEEZLE and do well. Hell, Beezle has got to be one of the most annoying AIRs ever. You pretty much HAVE to pull out the large explosives to hit it.

In a situation where you are being spawn camped, it just means that you fucked up beforehand. The enemy shouldn't be able to reach your base on most maps unless you let them, or there's a huge difference in power/skill. One unit is not going to make that big of a difference if you have time to prepare. If you just blindly rush the enemy lines, anything can kill you. Move around, stay within range of allies, find enemy positions, then start shooting. If you see a low HP unit that you can kill WITHOUT massive risk to yourself, THEN you should rush it. You don't have to just sit around if you see something you can't kill for sure either. Take shots at it from a distance, shoot at distracted enemies, or even go farm items. Just because you're not rushing headlong into enemy territory chasing a 20 HP Crimrose doesn't mean you have to sit around doing nothing.

When I play my gunship AIR, the ARTs I fear the most are TBG (so annoying to dodge, and hits for massive dmg on AIRs), DG, speedy Maxis, DG, and DESTRUCTOR. A UC ART has the ability to make me play cautiously, or back off if it aims 'zookas well. There are good UC bots, just like there are shitty RT bots (I'm STILL trying to make Sturbanger playable).

Addressing your final point, OP means "overpowered", as in taking an entire army to put down. An OP bot should make the game revolve around it, and be unkillable by a non "OP" bot. By your admission that you've killed "OP" bots with Izuna and Lily, that would make them OP as well. There's a reasonable counter to everything, it's just that you might not have it on hand at the moment. VF rushes are stopped by beam weaponry, or having the group shoot it. TBG is weak to melee and fast land based bots. EVE is good, yes, but you can dodge the beam easily if you pay attention. Heavily armored LNDs fall to Lightning Gun type weapons. ART types as a whole fall to melee that can reach them. SUP healers are targetted by everything for the weak bots in the heal zone. Even AG, the current OMGWTFOP target dies if your team has 2 ARTs or more. As long as they don't sit in one spot taking piercing blasters, AG falls really easily to explosives. It's not that hard to beat bots if you don't play a shit bot, and your bot is not weak to them.

LOL
@Shance & Iseal
to begin with, wiberryl arms are not UC

And Shance, the only way to avoid a room one sided with OP bots is to investigate each and every players profile before the battle starts. I suppose U do this?

@Hagame
SUGOI girls did NOTHING to the AIR pwning ARTs before this. My Crim just fragged 2 of those lolis in a single match. The reason : TBG cant shoot AIRs hovering directly on top of em. Only ART with such capability I know is Amateus and he is NOT OP.

I thought there was a UC Winberyl in shop? If not, then my bad. ARTs do have an option for AIRs that manage to get over them. It's called moving the hell out of the area. Spread out the ARTs, and shoot when they circle over a single ART. All the other ARTs can focus on it easily.

Iseal wrote:

Addressing your final point, OP means "overpowered", as in taking an entire army to put down. An OP bot should make the game revolve around it, and be unkillable by a non "OP" bot. By your admission that you've killed "OP" bots with Izuna and Lily, that would make them OP as well. There's a reasonable counter to everything, it's just that you might not have it on hand at the moment. VF rushes are stopped by beam weaponry, or having the group shoot it. TBG is weak to melee and fast land based bots. EVE is good, yes, but you can dodge the beam easily if you pay attention. Heavily armored LNDs fall to Lightning Gun type weapons. ART types as a whole fall to melee that can reach them. SUP healers are targetted by everything for the weak bots in the heal zone. Even AG, the current OMGWTFOP target dies if your team has 2 ARTs or more. As long as they don't sit in one spot taking piercing blasters, AG falls really easily to explosives. It's not that hard to beat bots if you don't play a shit bot, and your bot is not weak to them.

killing something that is OP (better stats, more damage at more range and with better fire rate then their similar, like the bot u can compare to EVE, from UC, is Lily, the bot u can compare to TBG is something like Victory 1 or fatarts, byne to red squealer . . . ) dont mean the bot u`re using is more OP, mean u had a hell of a fight and a hard time to kill that as the better stats or the better damage at better range and better fire rate/combo also with better aim/homming mean its needed less skill to do the same thing or even better than what u would do with an UC bot. (lol, by that u say that any UC player that do any good at the game fighting against RT players with any of these bots isnt doing any better than the other players because UC bots are the same as RT gara bots according to what u just said)

so no, that wouldnt make Izuna and Lily OP as well. Theres a reasonable to counter everything, yeah, so try the same and see how possible and easy it is (if the EVE or TBG or Byne player dont suck like hell with the bot hes using u will already have a hard time fighting against . . . if u find anyone good with either EVE or TBG or Byne then u will knwo what Im talking about when it comes to OP bot)

It's not OP until it's ridiculously powerful and always wins 1v1. That's just better base stats. There's always gonna be something better at something than you. Otherwise there'd be no reason to use different bots.

Iseal wrote:

It's not OP until it's ridiculously powerful and always wins 1v1. That's just better base stats. There's always gonna be something better at something than you. Otherwise there'd be no reason to use different bots.

as I said . . OP for you is something that is Godly . . . by that I also think u play only the OP bots mentioned (so OP for you would be something that could kill u from even far distance than what u can, with higfher damage, better fire rate and being able to have better stats than any of your bots) . . .

but, as things are going on now . . . I think that its more 6 to 12 months (maybe less) untill CS release Godly bots to CB so u would be happy to say u found an OP bot . . just to get this OP bot and say its not OP because TBG and EVE (or anything elese that OP) are able to, somehow, kill it.

You'd be wrong about that then. I don't even HAVE any of those bots. Wish I did just so I could see what's so good about them. Best bots are my Laz, ART slayer gunship, and Psycho Cluster.

Only "OP" bots I have according to you are lnd, VF, Patty, and hati machine(which I suck with since I have never hopped before, gonna take some time to get used to....) so that means AG is my worst nightmare. That still doesn't make me complain about how "OP" she is. And to end this, we all know that AG and TBG are stronger than most bots, still doesn't make them gamebreaking since there are and there will always be effective counters since this game has a lot of customization. If you tried hard enough, you could probably make an anti-AG ghost raider build. XD

Iseal wrote:

You'd be wrong about that then. I don't even HAVE any of those bots. Wish I did just so I could see what's so good about them. Best bots are my Laz, ART slayer gunship, and Psycho Cluster.

try finding anyone good with any OP bot and have a fight, then, if u really want to see whats good about then, try the same fight with pure UC bots at the same level of the OP bot u`re fighting and u will see whats good about them (if u still have no clue, ask the player the bot level and stats . . . the damage, range and fire/combo rate you will see in battle)

Lazflamme beats any non-homing-weapon AIR 1v1, though that rarely occurs. No weapon outranges my gunship unless tuned. Psycho Cluster is just lolhomingbeambombs. My Laz literally HUNTS TBG for the team, Lightning Gunner flies around the nukes, and Psycho Cluster flies over it. For EVE, Laz dodges shots while shooting from outside Psygun range, Lightning Gunner just shoots through the shield, Psycho Cluster Burst Beams from odd angles. VS melee, Laz kites, Lightning Gunner deals 40-60 per shot and pierces shields for 30-40, Psycho Cluster just chases. The only thing I have problems with is when an AIR unit starts at a higher alt than my AIRs, or if a line of ARTs comes after them, or other team based strategy.