Lets talk metagame and balance

SJunior wrote:

knyx wrote:

priskern wrote:

Not much opinion on this, it's not like she is unkillable. People just complain because they can't own the game like before and are butthurt of not getting her from the gara.

On side note, I noticed TBG's missile actually detonates automatically on the target it's seeking once it reach certain range around the target and cause nuke explosion, that's why people think they can't see the missile when they gets hit by the blast. Especially under messy full out fight and constant lagging when there are so many actions going on. Her missile size aren't big like what grandum bs shot out also, so by the time people notice and tries to evade, the missile already homes in and detonate in a nuke blast catching them in.

If you are and air and went head-to head with one, you see missiles are not supposed to curve over her head and follow you behind her. That's beyond a 180 degree turn, no other missile has that kind of homing.

Ergo imba.

If you are an Art (Not TBG) and went head to head with a Melee air. You see Airs that are not suppose to beat Arts but yet it still happens. If You got 3 other Arts VS still just one Melee Sereph some reason, I still think The arts would get pwned. And actually Any other good air.

Finally a Art. That actually Destroy Airs like Arts should. TBG.

Take anything else, the missiles curve over her head. Airs have other balance issues but missiles that do a >180 degree turn doesn't solve the balance issues for the other 99% of arts.

knyx wrote:

SJunior wrote:

knyx wrote:

If you are and air and went head-to head with one, you see missiles are not supposed to curve over her head and follow you behind her. That's beyond a 180 degree turn, no other missile has that kind of homing.

Ergo imba.

If you are an Art (Not TBG) and went head to head with a Melee air. You see Airs that are not suppose to beat Arts but yet it still happens. If You got 3 other Arts VS still just one Melee Sereph some reason, I still think The arts would get pwned. And actually Any other good air.

Finally a Art. That actually Destroy Airs like Arts should. TBG.

Take anything else, the missiles curve over her head. Airs have other balance issues but missiles that do a >180 degree turn doesn't solve the balance issues for the other 99% of arts.

Hmm You have a point. Although, I still am grateful for something that can take down airs..

ziix wrote:

SJunior wrote:

Finally a Art. That actually Destroy Airs like Arts should. TBG.

You're forgetting EVE.

Psssh EVE Is not an ART Type. EVE Is an IPWNALL Type.

ziix wrote:

SJunior wrote:

Finally a Art. That actually Destroy Airs like Arts should. TBG.

You're forgetting EVE.

your forgeting genbu and ameteus and just general player skill

dudes... Medics?

anyway... best support (medic) would be Winberll... sine she's self-sufficient enough to go offensive, charge the wb and repair.. (well, this style should work for many) but anyway, I've noticed that maybe ALL of the medics I encountered just camp at PS waiting for wb, farm for wb/charge or just plain waiting...

SO INSTEAD OF DOING THOSE THINGS, why don't you go offense and contribute to the group.. trust me, a lot of hits will get you wb charges in no time, provided of course, you use your head and stay behind a a group of allies attacking the enemy...

yes... TBG... 300-400 range and an ominous blast radius... EXPLODES RIGHT IN THE PATH OF AIR,,, damn**&*&*&&* 40 fly i guess, is the best defense, along with some units using Anti-homing bits... really... TBG's cruise missiles just curve in front of me and explodes like **%*^ EVE is a little manageable... Amatheus... hmm.. I wonder how I'll dodge that nuke blast... but it can be dodged most of the time provided you do a seraph tackle and do evasive maneuvers like crazy.. maneuvers that won't work on TGB... and to some extent.. EVE...

back to topic... game's fairly balanced..

UC's seraph practically owns some RT bots...
UC arts practically own some RT bots.. ARGGHDH THIS IS NOT WHAT YOU GUYS ARE TALKING ABOUT...

anyway, the key to balance lies with the player and the community itself... Ethics.

From my experience, you can beat anything, with just about anything, with proper load out and approach.

However people are lazy and never want to experiment. This eventually leads to ability stagnation, followed by becoming an easy kill. Also all this fun talk about the rock-paper-scissors balance is pretty funny, when you consider it only means what each bot is weak to (and you can break the triangle on all types, hence, the game is balanced).

Personal obersvations:

Air: having probably the highest skill ceiling, air's main advantage is it's unparalleled mobility which is simply what it uses to win in higher level play. Rookie air players are often terrible, till they learn how to properly maneuver and manage boost gauge. Seraphs are popular if for nothing else, wings grants easy mode for 32 seconds, as anti homing tends to make you neigh untouchable save for those with good aim with unguided weapons. Moving burst air raiders rely on a tendency for players to hold their ground as so they can stun lock, but have trouble being effective against things that are either very mobile, or can match/beat damage output from inside or outside the range of the air raider.

Land: defaults to vangaurd, and the omnipresent jikun spam. Coincidentally limiting one's self to melee spam can stagnate ones skill ability with lands, as it doesn't grant the experience needed to play gunner lands. Vangaurds get by with crazy damage, the jikuns are simply hard to hit until an air with appropriate beam weaponry appears. Gunners are almost non existent, despite being viable in the current environment.

Artillery: Mobile ART units have always been rather successful, packing the explosives to knock down airs, while still having enough raw damage to hurt lands. Amataus (all versions), destructor (both of them), Sagittary Maxis (MK I & 2), lily rain (majis included), EVE (obvious), destructor girl, toybox girl, and even psycho formula ( hint: change the arms), and even victory 1 are all viable options to turn into a powerful walking (or flying in some cases) weapons platform. Most ART players simply fall to airs on the sheer basis that the maker focused too much additional weaponry over additional mobility. Artilery has the highest reward rate for players that master playing it. Not only is your ranged unmatched, you have top damage output, and superior area control. If your doing it right, people will take long detours to avoid getting hammered by you, and people infront of you die.

Support: most likely to carry the team, supports can simply make a game by letting their teammates play aggressively, then come back to be healed. Supports can be turned into general purpose gunners, without having a weakness to beams, while having access to a wide range of weapons. They can be used for tempo control; malice and pulsardo can slow teams down and diminish effectiveness. For the silly, one can play on the very small size of chibies and turn one into a tiny gunner. Winberril can simply dick people over like no other bot can, and bugsycat laughs at melee. Healers are rare as they require 2 things: a competent team who can make up for your lack of damage in the field, people smart enough to keep a tab on you and protect you if needed. While being observant helps safegaurd against the latter, sometimes you really do just need some help. Mainly supports have the advantage to become an imitation of of another bot type, with no weakness (but without the access to high tier weaponry).

Meta were is it headed?:
To whatever becomes easy to play next, till someone breaks out with something new that does fairly well, with minimal investment and good overall performance. That is unless people stop playing follow the leader with their bots, and start making up stuff on their own. To be fair most people do work custom jobs, but it's pretty humorous that if you see a seraph you can guess that it's running 1 of 3 builds and still be correct 90% of the time.

Cyberstep=/=Balance.
Just sayin.

The current meta involves Michael Bay style fighting with fliers dropping left and right.

For those insisting to play AIRs in this mayhem, may I suggest boost run AIRs? Most missiles have horrid tracking to objects on the ground.

Z741 wrote:

Unknownmecha wrote:

I think air>everything now.

That's pretty much it, unless an OP LND [Fencer] manages to get a hit in.

vs LND: Beam spam
vs ART: Slayer Bit + Air Melee
vs AIR: Mini Zook
vs SUP: all of the above?

vs LND: Beam spam OR bombard spam (Izuna is great for that and the LND bot will just try to wait u somewhere when you boost end, IF u dont find a high place to land)
vs ART: Slayer Bit + Air Melee (AIR can also get close to ARTs and use zook or beam flying around and dodging his shots by going backward and remaining backward while flaying, then the ART is lost trying to turn aaround while u can fly around faster than the ART turn rate but yes, my Izuna have beam sword for the purpose of attacking ARTs or AIRs that fall to the ground)
vs AIR: Mini Zook (depend on how the player plays . . to fin an "even" higher place and bombard or to use a plasma that fire faster if your dodge skill is good also help a lot)
vs SUP: all of the above? (depend, if a winberrl take u to the ground you are doomed, even more if the winberrl isnt alone)

This just in, Teabag is the new lagger, with each explosion overloading your particle renderer over 9000%

(´・ω・`) wrote:

i like how the butthurt from TBG completly overshadows what this SUGOI gara did to lands

blitz blaster - killed all big phat land melee (Jham, BC, garm etc.)

DBMG - killed the rest of the lands including big melee

Because people are ladies

xzpwnz wrote:

(´・ω・`) wrote:

i like how the butthurt from TBG completly overshadows what this SUGOI gara did to lands

blitz blaster - killed all big phat land melee (Jham, BC, garm etc.)

DBMG - killed the rest of the lands including big melee

Because people are ladies

Go make me a sammish.

cant wait to see rage from albatross ^__^

boytitan2 wrote:

cant wait to see rage from albatross ^__^

You'll be trolling everyone once you get one >.>

ziix wrote:

boytitan2 wrote:

cant wait to see rage from albatross ^__^

You'll be trolling everyone once you get one >.>

Or rageing about how that's the one thing you didn't get from the gara.

knyx wrote:

ziix wrote:

boytitan2 wrote:

cant wait to see rage from albatross ^__^

You'll be trolling everyone once you get one >.>

Or rageing about how that's the one thing you didn't get from the gara.

I dont think I can hadle the heart break of not getting anothe op epsecialy a non moe op art I still dont get why genbu dosent want to be in my garage and wont let me have him =(

boytitan2 wrote:

I dont think I can hadle the eart break of not getting anothe op epsecialy a non moe op art I still dont get why genbu dosent want to be in my garage and wont let me have him =(

'twas never meant to be, my good man.

boytitan2 wrote:

knyx wrote:

ziix wrote:

You'll be trolling everyone once you get one >.>

Or rageing about how that's the one thing you didn't get from the gara.

I dont think I can hadle the heart break of not getting anothe op epsecialy a non moe op art I still dont get why genbu dosent want to be in my garage and wont let me have him =(

He's a goddamn tortoise, they aren't known for stellar transit times. He'll show up eventually.

Maybe.

boytitan2 wrote:

knyx wrote:

ziix wrote:

You'll be trolling everyone once you get one >.>

Or rageing about how that's the one thing you didn't get from the gara.

I dont think I can hadle the heart break of not getting anothe op epsecialy a non moe op art I still dont get why genbu dosent want to be in my garage and wont let me have him =(

U weren't born under the star of the tortoise

I wonder wats with this AIR is OP?
<<< just pilebunkered a few AIRs

I think the main issue with most ART is that missile performance in general, blows. Only a few missiles have proximity type blasts, and the rest tend to have poor homing and speed. DG/Des/Cont can't throw a sustained salvo to beat an alert high mobility air--dodging those missiles would be a whole different story if you had to dodge say, a chain of 5 AA missiles coming after you, rather than one or two the same time.

That's probably the biggest difference with TBG--pretty good homing and turning, plus a large blast radius on those missiles, and they go up to five shots in a salvo.

I think maybe improved homing and speed on missiles would make life a lot better for the rest of the ARTs, they'd also have a much better chance of hitting everything else as well. What do you guys think?

I think of seraph wing spam

Etherlight wrote:

I think the main issue with most ART is that missile performance in general, blows. Only a few missiles have proximity type blasts, and the rest tend to have poor homing and speed. DG/Des/Cont can't throw a sustained salvo to beat an alert high mobility air--dodging those missiles would be a whole different story if you had to dodge say, a chain of 5 AA missiles coming after you, rather than one or two the same time.

That's probably the biggest difference with TBG--pretty good homing and turning, plus a large blast radius on those missiles, and they go up to five shots in a salvo.

I think maybe improved homing and speed on missiles would make life a lot better for the rest of the ARTs, they'd also have a much better chance of hitting everything else as well. What do you guys think?

Lets just use Bazooka (preferably Blast zooka) on ART
I use 2 King Megaton AM2 on my Amateus Muchi
does some 140 dmg when alpha striking AIR

Here are my observations about things from the lower ranking rooms.

AIR – I still see a lot of AIR, I used to use AIR all the time, but I think with the recent releases of Nicole Malice and Toybox Girl there is a strong counter to AIR. Most airs are Izuna or some form of Crimrose (regular and Seraph).

LND – I used to see Vanguard Fencers and Jinkus everywhere. Now I see a nice mix of those along with Byne, Red Squeeler and have even seen a few ‘gunning’ LND (which actually surprised me as I braced to get ready for a melee spam fight and they just strafed and kept shooting).

ART – I’m actually still seeing a good number of ART. Destructor CN, Toybox and Toybox Girl were the main ones. And a few times over this past weekend could see a row of 4-5 ARTs moving forward taking out the enemy team/PS. I do think the introduction of Toybox Girl helped ART a lot.

SUP – I’m seeing more support now than ever although still low in number compared to the other types. When I first started if you saw a SUP bot you knew it was a healer. Then after Nicole Malice was released you saw a ton of SUP bots and maybe one ‘might’ be a healer the rest were all Nicoles. Now with Squidol Girl in the mix there is another SUP bot that can support without healing. I like the fact that support is starting to show up more and more and isn’t looked at as a healer only. Nicole can waste boosters and slow down the hit and run types. Squidol Girl can Slow, Disorder or stun with any of her weapons. Winberryl can trap a target or drawgun a hit and runner away.

How I see this playing out is AIR will still be there at the top flying high, but there will be an increase in ART and SUP. Although not healers as you get more points for damaging foes than healing friends. Maybe they should add a Repair Gun that will heal a bot on your team a few HP per shot if you hit them with it, or a Wrench sub-weapon to repair a bot or restore a lost part by hitting them. Yes, my mind just went to TF2’s Engineer. LND I think is a bit stagnant at the moment and will stay that way until there is more of a threat from ART. So I see the game triangle still in place. AIR is dominant so ART got a boost in order to deal with AIR. Then CS will wait and see if that balances things. If not I’d expect another boost to ART.

Etherlight wrote:

I think the main issue with most ART is that missile performance in general, blows. Only a few missiles have proximity type blasts, and the rest tend to have poor homing and speed. DG/Des/Cont can't throw a sustained salvo to beat an alert high mobility air--dodging those missiles would be a whole different story if you had to dodge say, a chain of 5 AA missiles coming after you, rather than one or two the same time.

That's probably the biggest difference with TBG--pretty good homing and turning, plus a large blast radius on those missiles, and they go up to five shots in a salvo.

I think maybe improved homing and speed on missiles would make life a lot better for the rest of the ARTs, they'd also have a much better chance of hitting everything else as well. What do you guys think?

Note: interval on subweapons are the recharge times between salvos, so she can throw out 5 of these, recharge for 2 seconds and throw out 5 more. She also has the only missiles that can curve over her head to hit stuff flying over her. So making her one of 2 arts able to counter airs (notice how I didn't say kill, since even my byne can melee airs, but at what cost? Other arts don't have a chance) effectively.

Also seraph wing dropping anti-homing flares, this shit's gay. You already have a uber-boooster that lasts almost as long as Shaden's, gain 40+ fly (yes she becomes faster than 40 fly), and has free anti-homing.

knyx wrote:

Etherlight wrote:

I think the main issue with most ART is that missile performance in general, blows. Only a few missiles have proximity type blasts, and the rest tend to have poor homing and speed. DG/Des/Cont can't throw a sustained salvo to beat an alert high mobility air--dodging those missiles would be a whole different story if you had to dodge say, a chain of 5 AA missiles coming after you, rather than one or two the same time.

That's probably the biggest difference with TBG--pretty good homing and turning, plus a large blast radius on those missiles, and they go up to five shots in a salvo.

I think maybe improved homing and speed on missiles would make life a lot better for the rest of the ARTs, they'd also have a much better chance of hitting everything else as well. What do you guys think?

Note: interval on subweapons are the recharge times between salvos, so she can throw out 5 of these, recharge for 2 seconds and throw out 5 more. She also has the only missiles that can curve over her head to hit stuff flying over her. So making her one of 2 arts able to counter airs (notice how I didn't say kill, since even my byne can melee airs, but at what cost? Other arts don't have a chance) effectively.

Also seraph wing dropping anti-homing flares, this shit's gay. You already have a uber-boooster that lasts almost as long as Shaden's, gain 40+ fly (yes she becomes faster than 40 fly), and has free anti-homing.

thats why you use zookas =D

boytitan2 wrote:

thats why you use zookas =D

Still hard especially when the time they need are short and are fast enough to close in to cycle you. Good luck hitting someone like Koi with that :/ *admits defeat*
And don't forget most of the time, they have stealth system/sniper sight inbuild too, so unless you got broad radar, you be always a step too slow to counter them and gg cycling time for them *pokemon cycling road music starts*