CBJP Metagame--Bringing it to CBEN

I've been hearing a lot about how the CBEN and CBJP metagames are very different--mostly how the CBJP meta is devoid of airs, and how CBEN players are apparently collectively braindead. But what are the actual differences between the two metas, and how can those be used for gameplay advantages in CBEN? I'm intending this thread as a brainstorming thread, so to start I'll throw out something I've heard frequently.

Apparently, people in CBJP have much better aim. I've got two ideas as to why this is so; CBJP apparently sees a lot less lag, due to fewer international players; and secondly, Japanese gamers seem to be more tolerant of nonstandard shooting controls than American players, as most American shooters tend to have the same shooting mechanics (hitscan gunshots, first-person or over-shoulder third-person viewpoints, crosshairs locked in the center of the screen, scopes, sights, and ironsights...all those things CB doesn't have). In my personal experience, CB's aiming is so different than most ahooters that players have to relearn how to aim, and more experience with conventional shooters can hinder that process. I'm not quite sure how to use this to gain a gameplay advantage in CBEN besides using the standard hopping or other dodge tactics, since it's much harder to aim for where someone will be due to CB's autoaim.

One difference is that LND with a gun will start shooting (and hitting) down AIRs when there is nothing else to shoot. So AIR don't just have to fear bazookas, missiles and rail guns from ARTs but magnums and rifles from LNDs, too. So no loney AG rush and farm contribution.

It's already impossible to bring the cbjp metagame to cben

From what I hear, bot-wise, CBjp is more LND-oriented, while CBen is more AIR-oriented. That's probably due to CBjp's higher average player skill...I assume that this is true(can't say it is...I don't play CBjp, so most of what I say here will relate to CBen), but in general, CBen's players possess a much lower degree of basic skill than would a CBjp player of the same experience level/playtime, controlling for bots used and interference from other players.

CBen also lacks a teamwork ethic. In an arena game, players on both sides tend to fight more as individuals than as a team. While this is not true for some players, in general CBen players do not cooperate with each other well. If multiple players converge on a target, it is usually because each player is looking to score the kill for him- or herself. If a teammate is endangered by pursuing enemies, others will, in general, not attempt to assist the ally in question until either one of these scenarios occurs:
1) Targeted ally is killed attempting to flee, but enemies stray too close to the other team's players
2) Ally reaches the safety of the group, and enemy attempts to further pursue his or her target. In this case, all allied players in the vicinity will usually turn their guns on the pursuer and kill said player(unfortunately, this also leaves the group wide open to assaults from other enemy players)
3) Ally attempts to stand and fight, and nearby allies spot the enemy and move to engage
If none of these three scenarios occurs, nearby allies will usually concentrate on their own battles, choosing to ignore said ally.
In addition, team players, such as Healers and Support-Bit users, tend to be very rare in the arena as most players will not retreat from the battle until either said player or his/her enemy is dead. Many CBen players don't seem to know the words "strategic retreat" or "avoid dying", making them easy prey for roving AIRs who thrive on such idiocy. Even when a Healer or Support-Bit user is present, said player will usually hang FAR FAR AWAY from the front lines(cowardice, therefore your healing bit is completely useless because nobody will fly all the way to the back for healing) or be healing at a completely idiotic spot with 1)multiple lanes of attack, 2)no cover WHATSOEVER, and 3)an area that is usually a prime target for enemies, like a Power Spot.

CBen's players tend to think in basic or lower processes. Detailed strategies are often lost on many players(witness a battle at Temple Site and you'll see why, because all a team has to do to win is cover the side entrances and wait for the enemy to come to them yet many are dumb enough to fly right over the gap and get buttraped by fatass ARTs blasting away at them, not even going for the side entrances, which are almost always left unguarded), and basic tactics are usually all that many EN players are capable of: luring, tunnel vision, and maybe effective pursuit. And if you want to witness CBen's stupidity in action, watch a game where one team has SilentIce.

tl;dr CBen's metagame is dominated by AIR, tends to have little strategy to their battles, and completely lacks any semblance of teamwork. Players tend to rush at an enemy and foolishly pursue them into enemy territory instead of using critical thinking skills and formulating a strategy, as well as not being aware of when to attack and when to retreat. This last skill is the most important skill a player can use and master, yet many players don't possess it in CBen.

Compare what you will.

Mmm
Cbjp's metagame is dominated by hophops
Their general player skill is also higher
There's a handful of players there that can compete with me instead of cbens one or two

@ firekiller

i think we have so little support because they are being constantly flamed

why are they flamed ? because most of them are fucking dumbasses making the game harder when putting freakin oversized lolbell circles under the powerspot making it impossible to just stiop an enemy push with a hypershot barage since you lack hypershot at your own powerspot

i like good supporters, i really like them and i tell them, but most of the time ONE fucking supporter means a loss for my team

(im happy that there are not so many ions and ion chans around anymore, they where even worse then winbell ever will be ...)

btt:

if you want to change the metagame just equip a zook and learn to use it, the community is flavour of the month abusing, so it would change away from airbots pretty quickly when people actually started to hit them

CBEN started with little weaponry out side of ART to deal with airs properly, resulting in air heavy meta.

That and the fact people have yet to learn the old adage "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" when it comes to things like hoppers and melee.

I've actually seen very few hoppers in CBJp, but the ratio of hoppers in relation to rank is quite startling...the higher the rank, the more common the hoppers in a commando are....

Also, Lnds do generally dominate, Jp-side.... <_<;

Being primarily a Support player(healing as much as I can), I tend to notice that they indeed can and will go to great lengths to protect a good healer...I've cited it before, but will tell the story again here....

Using my Herizanus(plant-bot with an awesome built-in laser) and healing under a PS, I suddenly came under fire from an air(A Crim as I recall) that was trying to sneak in from a blind angle; as one, the 4 allies I were healing(all clearly Jp players) all turned, and 1(or 2) of them immidiately put themselves between me and the Crim's attacks while the lot of them simultaneously opened fire...the Crim went down before she knew what had hit her...I hopped up and down in thanks, and the healing went on uninterrupted after that one, heh!

Yeah, it's a different game there, and my own playstyle leans heavily towards the Jp style...which may explain why I tend to fare noticably worse here....

CapeMike wrote:

I've actually seen very few hoppers in CBJp, but the ratio of hoppers in relation to rank is quite startling...the higher the rank, the more common the hoppers in a commando are....

Also, Lnds do generally dominate, Jp-side.... <_<;

Being primarily a Support player(healing as much as I can), I tend to notice that they indeed can and will go to great lengths to protect a good healer...I've cited it before, but will tell the story again here....

Using my Herizanus(plant-bot with an awesome built-in laser) and healing under a PS, I suddenly came under fire from an air(A Crim as I recall) that was trying to sneak in from a blind angle; as one, the 4 allies I were healing(all clearly Jp players) all turned, and 1(or 2) of them immidiately put themselves between me and the Crim's attacks while the lot of them simultaneously opened fire...the Crim went down before she knew what had hit her...I hopped up and down in thanks, and the healing went on uninterrupted after that one, heh!

Yeah, it's a different game there, and my own playstyle leans heavily towards the Jp style...which may explain why I tend to fare noticably worse here....

One thing I noticed in CBen is that when a healer is available, a shitton of players crowd around him/her. But when ONE ENEMY attacks the group, it's every man and moebot for themselves. Half the time, the healer gets killed trying to get away and not a single player who themselves benefited from said healer bothers to return fire unless said players are attacked themselves.

Thanks for the feedback; right now, I'm getting that the way to use this to our advantage would be to form a decently large, coordinated team that practices basic skills and strategies, and then proceeds to pubstomp the EN servers. Borrowing an idea from EVE Online, perhaps an alliance between multiple major clans on one of the three sides? CB does have built-in voice-chat, or Skype, Teamspeak, Ventrilo, or something similar could be used instead to avoid having non-alliance members clooging up the airwaves. Anyone interested in helping make this happen?

Klinkin wrote:

Thanks for the feedback; right now, I'm getting that the way to use this to our advantage would be to form a decently large, coordinated team that practices basic skills and strategies, and then proceeds to pubstomp the EN servers. Borrowing an idea from EVE Online, perhaps an alliance between multiple major clans on one of the three sides? CB does have built-in voice-chat, or Skype, Teamspeak, Ventrilo, or something similar could be used instead to avoid having non-alliance members clooging up the airwaves. Anyone interested in helping make this happen?

My clan, WinterWing, already set up a Mumble server for ourselves. Maybe we could make this happen, but you'd have to talk to our leaders first.
And then we'd have to convince other clans to join us...
And then we'd have to coordinate...

Good luck with that bro. With the attitude you get from most CBen players and clans, I doubt this will ever really happen, and if it does, I'll be very surprised.

FireKiller87 wrote:

Klinkin wrote:

Thanks for the feedback; right now, I'm getting that the way to use this to our advantage would be to form a decently large, coordinated team that practices basic skills and strategies, and then proceeds to pubstomp the EN servers. Borrowing an idea from EVE Online, perhaps an alliance between multiple major clans on one of the three sides? CB does have built-in voice-chat, or Skype, Teamspeak, Ventrilo, or something similar could be used instead to avoid having non-alliance members clooging up the airwaves. Anyone interested in helping make this happen?

My clan, WinterWing, already set up a Mumble server for ourselves. Maybe we could make this happen, but you'd have to talk to our leaders first.
And then we'd have to convince other clans to join us...
And then we'd have to coordinate...

Good luck with that bro. With the attitude you get from most CBen players and clans, I doubt this will ever really happen, and if it does, I'll be very surprised.

It's a solid concept, and one I'd be more than happy to help make happen in shuffle matches...I've got a rarely used Brd acct(Blitzwing), and a Dos acct(GokaiDream) that I'm trying a few different things with...so if you see me on, drop me a line!

That also reminds me
When there's a clan tournament in cbjp
The best players from each union form a clan

CBJP also seems more mindful about stat:cost ratio. It's very frequent that I'll watch a vid where the player's bot can exhaust all its ammo in a minute or two, then goes to suicide. I see builds fairly often that take very few capa carts and pile on carts like stun regain and guard carts to prolong a bot's life without pumping up its cost too badly (prime example: hophop stun regain lazflammes with custom mags).

Also they weapon tune a hell of a lot more than most EN players do.

but anyway

CBEN meta is basically alpha air, thoarla am3 + shaden, Beam Pitcher Seraph, and other assorted air gimmick builds, as well as the no-skill hardhitting rambofag melee lands (Blazed Baron FF, Vanguard Fencer/Axer)

CBJP meta consists much more of artillery and blast weapon-using lands, and utilizes short boost a lot more than EN does (anything with hop will hop; I've even seen hopping ah-chans (works well if you know what you're doing)). More importantly, they use it more properly than CBEN does; I partly blame the widespread use of the term "hopper" for people thinking they need to hop at every waking moment when playing a bot using short boost. Getting off track though...the resulting environment is obviously extremely hostile to the majority of airs, making less than optimal airs die very swift and painful deaths. This is probably where air hoppers come in; airs that can hop can dodge from a distance without needing to take to the sky, where they need to worry about their boost gauge and are likely to be sniped by a bazooka hopper or art of some sort. CBJP also uses melee, but they're smarter about it and primarily use more strategy-oriented melee bots (hatigarm machine, 40 tgh Vanguard Fencer/Axer hopper, daedalian am2, jet hammer, etc)

That was a lot longer than I intended. tl;dr time?

CBEN:
Alpha air and other gimmick airs
Herpderp melee

CBJP:
Land and art, frequently hoppers
Lots of airs hop too
More strategic (but still hard-hitting) melee

i beg to differ, fencer offers broad radar so you can play it in a nonsuicidal or rambo way and it works quite well i must say

A few builds cbjp people are gay for:
Laz with pierce gun + buckler
Shino with ll bulk mag + k-shield
Accel with bazooka + k-shield
Pacifar with powered laser + handy mag (xz want handy mag mod)
Baltheon with thoarla am3
Those seem to be the most common
And yes, their main weapon is tuned

my renny wants more beamgun mods and possibly some handy mag mods too ._.

sadly, i only got one beamgun mod when it was in gara and i didnt see handy mag mod yet outside of someone elses lottocube screenshot ^^

I'm surprised at the lack of Blazed barron FFs that don't just use the rather powerful mobility of self burning to score quick slices and escape. But I suppose that would be a bit too much thought for EN.

There are a few other things to note though. CBJP players can, and will tune EVERY slot they can on most of their bots, at least from what I've seen. Is it needed? not always, but it shows that many are willing to put down more money and materials into bots than the average player in EN.

Aurum_Sol wrote:

i beg to differ, fencer offers broad radar so you can play it in a nonsuicidal or rambo way and it works quite well i must say

I thought the fact that I mentioned JP uses vanguards as well with a completely different playstyle already implied that there was another viable, smarter, and more effective method to him.

It's impossible. People also affect the meta game. With all these noobs (including me) in CBEN, we will never get to the level of CBJP

This thread has opened my eyes, made me more conscious of how I play. Going to watch videos of jp players... finding them on youtube now

Azaryn wrote:

This thread has opened my eyes, made me more conscious of how I play. Going to watch videos of jp players... finding them on youtube now

Nicovideo'll turn up more results.

Suguri wrote:

Azaryn wrote:

This thread has opened my eyes, made me more conscious of how I play. Going to watch videos of jp players... finding them on youtube now

Nicovideo'll turn up more results.

Thank you very much, currently learning from scratch now xD then going to learn from mentor once I find one xD

In general, blame americans (not only referring to people in the United States) for their engraved-in-the-skull individualist way of thinking.

Remember Ouka's and VA's golden days? Every match was a race to decimate everything on ground where both teams' mentioned lands didn't gave a damn about what happened to their side's arts and sups. And even now, 99% of melee land players are plain suicidal score fags who seem to be unaware of the existence of guns. One reason AGs continue to rule metagame is due to arts, the bots best suited to take it down, have to hold off pressure from both ground and air.

In most of the teams I have been, nobody gives a damn about an air or land giving chase to our healer, the same goes for teammates at the front getting outnumbered because the rest are too busy farming their repairs kits and hyper shots but will never go get healed when they're at low hp.

There have been rare occasions when it wasn't necessary for me to request backup, because there are good teammates who pay attention to radar and actually take advantage of others' broad radar and long range arts (gives instant information about sneakers and enemy team's composition from afar, no need to type anything...).

What pisses me off about hoppers aren't hoppers themselves but guys with the unbelievably stupid idea of "Oh, a lone small land getting ganged...MAH KILL KEKEK", add them all up and you'll have 9-12 useless people blocking each others' bullets. God bless the rest of the team being anywhere else, surely getting ganged up.

/rant

both CBEN and CBJP are shit. CBJP is a bit better, but this is a no skill required game after all. so yeah, both are shit.