Lets talk metagame and balance

*mocks Hyoka*

Hyoka wrote:

Nisa wrote:

Hyoka wrote:

My metagame:

Everything's gonna kill you. No exceptions.

oh look!

it's an unarmed chibi!

*gets shot*

I got killed by an Ouka Kamuro's Ouka Raisen.

....I'm not kidding.

chibi lily.

Nisa wrote:

Hyoka wrote:

Nisa wrote:

oh look!

it's an unarmed chibi!

*gets shot*

I got killed by an Ouka Kamuro's Ouka Raisen.

....I'm not kidding.

chibi lily.

Fire Pillar

xzpwnz wrote:

Rock paper scissors

Oh I see...

LND is paper...

ART is rock

AIR is scissors...

Support, are mushroom.

Paper beats rock, scissor beats paper. Scissor also beats rock. That's until rock gets all it's capacity cartridges and some RT stuff then shit got real. That also could beat paper. And would beat scissors, but it can't hit scissors because they can fly. So scissors beats paper and avoid rock.

And that is called, balance.

id rahter use my ameteus than risk getting raped by eves and toybox girls and ameteus aplha strikes when using my airs

sorry I have suakuza blitzelt both with seriojns hd garaulu bird ams psycho cluster geograssis and have not made top ten with airs since the spam of ameteus and toybox girl sorry aplha strike airs are gona go extinct fast

wells its still the same in terms of what beats what

eve>>>>>>>>>>vangaurd>>>>>>>>toybox cunt>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>aplha strike airs>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>aplha strike ameteus>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>hoppers>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.everything else

vangaurd spam still works eve still beats everything

shit just yesterday told 2 dos players in a dos room when we were getting raped to sue there eves we won

eve will always be most op untill ppl get bored with her to the point of no using her most high tier players who ahve her dont use her cause she to easy mode

end note I predict once albatros and bazz toybox comes airs will be exticnt (well not extint but wont be able to rambo a whole ps alone and live anymore which sucks )

also aplha strike ameteus>>aplha strike air I love just sitting idle waiting for a aplha strike air to get close to ram some gattling zooka nova missles and the newly buffed toybox missle ams up its ass

Z741 wrote:

Unknownmecha wrote:

I think air>everything now.

That's pretty much it, unless an OP LND [Fencer] manages to get a hit in.

vs LND: Beam spam
vs ART: Slayer Bit + Air Melee
vs AIR: Mini Zook
vs SUP: all of the above?

Agreed.

ziix wrote:

Nisa wrote:

Hyoka wrote:

I got killed by an Ouka Kamuro's Ouka Raisen.

....I'm not kidding.

chibi lily.

Fire Pillar

Lava

knyx wrote:

ziix wrote:

Nisa wrote:

chibi lily.

Fire Pillar

Lava

That whirlwind powerup thing

LazerRazer wrote:

knyx wrote:

ziix wrote:

Fire Pillar

Lava

That whirlwind powerup thing

Kay nuff said,this is getting derailed.

Keep on topic b4 immenient lock.

To go more in-depth.

The Rock Scissor Papers balance is... a little broken.

Normally it's LND>ART>AIR, with Support being able to be built to kill either LNDs or AIRs well, sometimes ART.

Let's look at the popular builds in each category...

Popular EFFECTIVE LND builds include Venguards, Hoppers with Zooks, Oukas, Patties, Squealers and Bynes, occasionally the ZSG with a Kamui Staff. AIR bots can take on all of these pretty well, but each has their own way of dealing with air, especially hoppers who are essentially built to take on everything. LND hopper numbers are steadily dropping though. Vengurds are annoying as ever and can kill anything that's not airborne or at least 100 feet off the ground; they just have to chase below AIRs until their boost runs out and they land, they can just run up to basically anything and murder them flat. Patties are another type of LND that can kill AIRs really well if they're not high up enough.

Popular EFFECTIVE AIRs are Stardust Cannon laggers (yes), ABR/LPG/DBMG/BMG + Mini Zook S-Sized Airs, Brickgales, Garula AM users and the oh so notorious Alpha Raiders. Adones and Viktors are still around but not so; usually used by laggers. I don't need to go in-depth about AIRs, everyone has seen one and would probably come close to ripping their hair out upon seeing one. Within dogfights; not counting damn laggers, the one with the mini zook and is flying higher will usually come out on top. However, AIRs can even take on (fat) ARTs if their FLY stat is high enough and if they know what they're doing.

Popular EFFECTIVE ARTs are EVE, Tbox-chan, Hopperteus, Destructors and Saggies. Tbox-chan and EVE are but 2 of the most threatening things in the metagame right now, being able of killing EVERY SINGLE OTHER TYPE really well.

TBox-chan, although new, could be right up there with EVE as one of the most imbalanced bots right now. She can take on everything really well, dealing tons of damage with her spammable core weapons and raping airs everywhere with her stock AM parts. See a Venguard coming? No problem, use her head Missiles to rocket yourself out of harm's reach and continue spamming missiles. Perhaps the only weakness I can find in her are things that won't get too much hurt from her missiles (Blast Guard cart users) and can possibly close up the gap that she creates when she rockets herself back...

AIR is sorta > Everything, but it really doesn't hold too much water of them being the absolutely broken choice when most ARTs seem to kind of suck and healers, burst fire bits, etc will always be nice on most maps and any LND bot can still carry a Handy Bazooka, Mini Bazooka or Micro Bazooka. People really need to learn how to adapt to what's prominent when there's options to counter them, unless you're a Vanguard or an Ouka, I've stuck a bazooka on practically every LND I have, lol.

priskern wrote:

Suguri wrote:

Am I the only one that feels arts have been gaining power back slightly? Plenty of good arts like Albatross (still JP only, but still), EVE, and Toybox Girl have come along. The introduction of Greinaut provided beam-type arms they can use, either for alpha while hopping or for anti-land beamstunning purposes. And - and maybe this is just me - people seem to be realizing that even on arts, mobility > tec. A mobile art with float dash or short boost is a real pain in the ass to deal with, especially since they'll usually have heavier weaponry than other types. Looking ahead though, I'm expecting a lot of toybox girl in the near future.

Hoppers have been gradually dying out from what I've seen. With all the melee bots that have been added recently, as well as bots equipped to counter them (EVE, Psycho Cluster, Malice), that's not all too surprising. Majority of lands I see are Vanguards.

Alpha strike airs are still flavor-of-the-month, nothing new to add here. Air still > others when played well. And it honestly shouldn't be surprising, given the type that has the most available mobility will naturally have the highest skill ceiling.

I'm not even sure what's going on with supports these days. I only see Malice, and spend most matches without seeing a single healer.

tl;dr: Air is still on top and will probably stay that way, art got better, land got comparatively worse and is filling more of a niche role that seems to be mostly comprised of melee (mostly due to recent bots released more than anything, probably), WHERE'S THE GODDAMN MEDIC

Spike bit pwns


I killed a jikun and 2 destructors with that and a chainsaw on my medi aide

Growing wonder+Wonder rate up+dual slayer bit+chainsaw=CRAZY YANDERE CHAOS

Well knowing what you're gonna face isn't going to help you much in doing well, lol.

Especially with how powerful the opposing bots are.

Hyoka wrote:

Well knowing what you're gonna face isn't going to help you much in doing well, lol.

Especially with how powerful the opposing bots are.

Kitouski wrote:

People really need to learn how to adapt to what's prominent when there's options to counter them

D:

A single, well-aimed bazooka can do wonders, I promise. D:

Hyoka wrote:

Well knowing what you're gonna face isn't going to help you much in doing well, lol.

Especially with how powerful the opposing bots are.

you can take countermeasures.

Hyoka wrote:

Well knowing what you're gonna face isn't going to help you much in doing well, lol.

Especially with how powerful the opposing bots are.

>clicks on someone from the opposing side
>clicks the Player Info button

It's a lot to go through, but any amount of preparation helps.

NovaZero wrote:

Hyoka wrote:

Well knowing what you're gonna face isn't going to help you much in doing well, lol.

Especially with how powerful the opposing bots are.

>clicks on someone from the opposing side
>clicks the Player Info button

It's a lot to go through, but any amount of preparation helps.

Or anticipate the standard order of enemies.

Eve

Fencer

MB Raider

Fangurls

Trannie Gurls
Hopper

Fatart

Crims

Izuna Crims

Izuna

New Rt bots

All the other Rt bots

Z741 wrote:

Unknownmecha wrote:

I think air>everything now.

That's pretty much it, unless an OP LND [Fencer] manages to get a hit in.

vs LND: Beam spam
vs ART: Slayer Bit + Air Melee
vs AIR: Mini Zook
vs SUP: all of the above?

I think people have been making much too many generalizations about airs with mini zooks, because you can build any type of bot to counter anything. Using art as an example...

vs AIR: Missiles, zooks
vs ART: They spam you, you spam back. If you're using a mobile art, slayer bit/dual pepen bit is go.
vs LND: Beam Rifle, Greinaut AMs, Laser Bit, Dual Pepen Bit for anti-melee, Volcano Grenade for anti-melee, etc etc
vs SUP: Missile blast radius + healing group = point farm

And how about lands too?

vs LND: Twin Blaster, Negatron Rifle, Greinaut AMs
vs ART: Melee + dual slayer
vs AIR: Bazooka
vs SUP: Tell me when a Vanguard has looked at twelve people under a repair bit and not ran at them.

And supports too, because I'd be remiss if I ignored the ones with the most potential for multi-type rape.

vs LND: Sword Guard, Shell Guard, Beam Rifle, Wide Beam Gun, Beam Machinegun, Dual Laser Bit, Mega Beam Gun, Negatron Rifle, Twin Blaster, Drawguns, the list goes on.
vs ART: Blast Guard, Shell Guard, Dual Slayer + Melee
vs AIR: Beam Guard, Micro Bazooka, Bazooka, Large Bazooka, Dual Rifle Bit, Dual Missile Bit, Drawguns, etc etc
vs SUP: Guard carts + whatever the hell you want to do.

I think the most important problem is not weapon types, but rather, landing a hit using those weapons. I am sure that using an air aiming downwards spamming is MUCH easier then anything staying on land trying to hit said air while maneuving from being not getting shot at WHILE still be cautious not to drop into terrain like water/lava/traps/ enemy stealth land etc. Some bots does this well, but it isn't applicable for said BoyTitan Class art? Unless you both are on same level height. But any experienced air player will always tend to try flying higher, which pretty much a ensure a pretty grim rate of survival once you are getting chase at till KO.

Sure, we need to follow most allies around but most of the time, a single jikun/fencer/squealer/byne etc etc who came and raid the team, you will be the 1st to get targeted and die due to being not able to out maneuver them (any walk/fly isn't much faster then a simple punch from squealer), and getting hit once from them almost ensure you get stunlock till either that said land get kill off by your ally or you are KO.

Art is countered by land as we all know, but how art fare with air as far as I know still only those few mechs that you guys mentioned are applicable. Seriously, whatever come's down in the end is the person who gains the higher height wins, since there aren't as many mech flying in the air as compare to those walking the land.

Nisa wrote:

LazerRazer wrote:

knyx wrote:

Lava

That whirlwind powerup thing

Kay nuff said,this is getting derailed.

Keep on topic b4 immenient lock.

Thank you for keeping the thread on track
also I enjoyed reading all this. kudos to everyone who contributed and kept it civilized.
I also noticed today that TBG is well designed to do well against air units, but some how people are complaining.

Unknownmecha wrote:

Thank you for keeping the thread on track
also I enjoyed reading all this. kudos to everyone who contributed and kept it civilized.
I also noticed today that TBG is well designed to do well against air units, but some how people are complaining.

The cries of silly whiners. They're just complaining because Toybox Girl's actually doing what an ART's supposed to be doing: being effective at killing AIRs.

NovaZero wrote:

Unknownmecha wrote:

Thank you for keeping the thread on track
also I enjoyed reading all this. kudos to everyone who contributed and kept it civilized.
I also noticed today that TBG is well designed to do well against air units, but some how people are complaining.

The cries of silly whiners. They're just complaining because Toybox Girl's actually doing what an ART's supposed to be doing: being effective at killing AIRs.

Couldn't agreed more on this. She's wonderful especially during messy fight where everyone are clustered together *_* Too bad I got no luck on getting her Q_q....Oh well....may 1st then =.=....

yilx wrote:

To go more in-depth.



TBox-chan, although new, could be right up there with EVE as one of the most imbalanced bots right now. She can take on everything really well, dealing tons of damage with her spammable core weapons and raping airs everywhere with her stock AM parts. See a Venguard coming? No problem, use her head Missiles to rocket yourself out of harm's reach and continue spamming missiles. Perhaps the only weakness I can find in her are things that won't get too much hurt from her missiles (Blast Guard cart users) and can possibly close up the gap that she creates when she rockets herself back...

Hell no eves is OP FAG BITCH cause eve can take on a hatigarm machine or vangaurd at once shit some players 2 vanguards at once what the fuuck and win 3 eves a team and kiss the fucking game good bye

Toybox chan taking on a vangaurd is like lily rain u can run and buy time but if no airs are around and if that particular vanguard has a taste for moe like mines then eventualy if it takes all game he will kill u.So toybox chan is still weak to lands like other arts.

Hopping ameteus can kill toybox chan.


ONLY reason toybox chan is a big threat is cause her missles come out fucking no were man you could be flying shooting a fat art and toybox chan missle hits u outa no were and knocks u out the sky thuse stunlock by mobs thus death --.

Plus ppl are forgets about genbu toybox chan its just a matter of finding were the the cunt is genbu is now a fucking nerfed eve much more dangerous 1vs1

The solution to toybox cunt is real simple please CS make it so her weapons give a lock on indication u cant dodge what u cant see when flying