What makes a bot broken?

Aurum_Sol wrote:

edit: @ suguri, i guess its because there is more than one decent art on a team so they can cover each other making annoying circling ineffective ._. to bad our art population wont allow that

xz's right actually, their lands are good enough to fight off airs properly and efficiently. EN still has short boost phobia and would rather call it an exploit than actually utilize it, though.

It's not like they can't utilize it
They just do it horribly

xzpwnz wrote:

It's not like they can't utilize it
They just do it horribly

Well, there's that too.

Fireflywater wrote:

Ugh, this thread is now just a down right debate war. "AG BROKEN", "NO U, LRN TO AA", etc. I thought this thread was just for statements only. I'd request a lock but I don't know if that appropriate or not. Everyone has troubles with certain enemies. Some would have trouble with Aqui-lag girl, some would have trouble with hoppers, some are too cocky to say they have trouble on anything. Just stop.

I'm not trying to be cocky. I admit that I'm very average at this game, however, I seem to be one of the few people willing to admit that generally when I die its my fault. People are so willing to blame their deaths or struggles to a lack of balance INSTEAD of what is more often then not a mistake of some sort on their end.

As far as this thread being off topic, no it is not. We are all discussing what makes a bot broken because some people feel that Aquila Girl is broken, when I (and many others) feel that she is most definitely not. She is at best easy to play out of the box, unlike some other bots that are just as good whilst requiring more work to make them as good.

Oh, and as far as the original question presented...

An over-powered bot is any bot that lacks a possible disadvantage or counter.

P.S. ~ Before you say, "Well that's Aquila Girl!" Please refer to my previous post and the posts of many other (far more notable) people (Suguri, xzpwns, Kitouski, and many others) in this thread. Aquila girl has a counter and if you're unwilling to play said counter, then don't complain about her being over-powered.

She's not invincible.

people just lose their hope.

Aurum_Sol wrote:

@ god is a cat girl (wtfname), yes i get what you meant but i would not call a bot broken just because most of the community cant play (thats because those are to things that are unrelated to each other)
i also agree with the weapon choice of arts you mentioned, there are some interesting ones but overall there could be much more, i personally would like magna grenades in a weaker, handheld form (oh well, i would be happy already with rt shop beamgun mod) just because i want a beam based weapon for my L-Arts that i can actually get without it being to freakin strong (tell me if theres another but the only ones for L-Art would be beamgun mod [not aviable most of the time] and beamrifle [not suited for mid to close range] right?)

edit: @ suguri, i guess its because there is more than one decent art on a team so they can cover each other making annoying circling ineffective ._. to bad our art population wont allow that

Yeah, pretty much why I added "it's more of a situational thing, or feeling".

I find beam rifle a pretty bad weapon for arts, though I just still have it on my Lolibox because I stopped using her by the time I was trying to see what the beam rifle could do on an art.
The aim feels so damn off. It's a really odd aim (or maybe it's just Lolibox that is odd to aim with). 40 tec + not tuned beam rifle = I don't remember seeing it doing more than 40 on lnds.
Still better than hitting them on the face with a railgun and only do 9 damage (it happens a lot to me).

I think that arts are 1 of the 3 types that can't get much from weapons for other types?

Lnds can do well with a rocket launcher, which I find it more of art type weapon.
Airs can do well with a couple of melee weapons (I'm excluding that air slash or whatever it is). Haven't seen much about missiles on airs that aren't beams, though there's 1 AM that isn't a beam missile? I saw it on a video, but never on the game.
From what I tried, beam rifle feels unreliable on arts, and I don't remember any other beam gun that isn't awfully hard to get (haven't gone through all rt shop weapons though). Melee could work if people didn't lag so much, and equipping a melee weapon on an art, feels like a waste of capa or slot most of the time. Unless you find a good melee part that still enable you to keep your weapons. And striking someone with a melee weapon seems to be really risky and situational. I'd rather run. I do remember seeing a Lily with a Kamui, and people talking about a Maxis with one too.

Bugscait AM + Kamui?! I did fooled around with a Medi Aide with a Kamui. XDDD


I think that arts are just kinda of left behind when it comes to updates.
There's tons of good (I mean mostly the gold ball moe bots right now) bots coming out every once in a while for lnd and air types. But arts... Not that much?
Maybe because art type is a rather fragile class, so if you make 1 art good at launch, many people will just think that they are broken, because of certain traits of their class being upped (long range + good damage = everyone screaming).
But this lack of updates might also turn off people to play arts, even when there's good arts laying around the place, but they are kinda of "old" already (destructor is a good bot, but he's being here since launch?), the weapons are mostly old or feel like just a repeat of old stuff. Then new airs and lnds and released, people go for what's easier and/or new, decreasing the art population, making arts easier targets due to their low number and people not fulfilling their roles anymore.
One of the results of this snowball is people's senses being numbed and making them think that every bot is broken, when they really aren't (more obvious about lnds) (most anyway).


I'm mostly an art user, and for the past... month or couple of months I played more with lnd (melee/gunner) than with art, and just recently picked my arts again. Why? Most of the new bots that I got were lnds (Renny, Patty, Kuten, etc).
But after sometime, those aren't what I really enjoy to play with. I do like those bots that I got, but I still enjoy to play with arts a lot more. So I picked up my arts again.
And what did I saw? My bots are still the same, I didn't got any new arts that I would enjoy playing with (actually, I only got 1 new art, and a bunch of new bots of all the other types), the weapons are still the same, so I'm back to the same old. Though now it's more of continuing to experiment and make them all good bots. But it lacks refreshment.
And unfortunately, not even 10 RO cubes were enough to change anything (giving me 1 art that happens to be a stock Lily, man, that was harsh. But I'm not blaming anyone). The gara also refused to give me Alba and Gathima (Nieuport), and gave me more lnds and arts that I already have.
So, the lack of updates to arts kinda of makes the game rather repetitive (oh lol) for me.

Also, I greatly dislike the crosshair on this game. It's a pain to aim on certain maps, when I'm using weapons that I actually need to aim. It doesn't help much to have a transparent blue crosshair when I'm aiming at an air that has a blue sky as background.


If good balance between types was present and people followed their rolls, many bots wouldn't be called broken.
I would like a more balanced game with a good gameplay (community related), but I don't really see it happening any soon, if it ever happens.



Guys, do you know what also makes her harder to counter even when you have a good weapon? The fact that the airs on your team fail, and you are dodging her shots, countering her and dodging incoming lnds (and even other airs as well).
And the game gets boring when you start equipping weapons just because she exists.


BTW, *points at the left* my IGN without the numbers is enough. XD

I do think some bots are easier to play than others and that seems to contribute to "brokeness' however if people are screaming about an easy to play bot than doesn't that mean "you suck?"

I rage more seeing 7 sun players farming spawn in 20/30 with no chance of a counter attack. I rage more when my chibis see Wonder drugs stolen from them making my job harder to heal people.

I have taken down Aquila Girl with my Destructor girls sub missles and use Paralyzers tune with extra paralysis to stun bots so that others can take them down.

A true metagame evolves overtime as new things come in and as the skill lovel changes, I think someone said that CN JP is dominated by hoppers, Well even Hoppers have their weakness, Each bot has it's strength and weakness. Even cannonballer might be consider broken oneday.

Suguri wrote:

Aurum_Sol wrote:

edit: @ suguri, i guess its because there is more than one decent art on a team so they can cover each other making annoying circling ineffective ._. to bad our art population wont allow that

xz's right actually, their lands are good enough to fight off airs properly and efficiently. EN still has short boost phobia and would rather call it an exploit than actually utilize it, though.

while I'm fine with zook + shield/k-shield hopper, I'm definitely not fine with more Alba HD hoppers, Wishmaster is horrible enough with his 180 degree turning purple beams of doom.

there re tons of things like this just because

1.You re doing the wrong way (like an muchi try your best to shoot LND bot although they got blast guard with yr crappy force WTF, an AIR with only beam gun try yr best to chase another AIR ... )

2.You don't know how precious yr cost is (like some ppl rambo hard like crazy and proud with their fking score, "game 's warrior, destroyer, sword master, leader ship" and .. blah blah things but their cost is even higher than their score or almost the same with higher than 4k cost)

3.No team work and you like to being solo (CBEN is like NO TEAM WORK AT ALL, ppl tried to do their best and some died in a stupid way, sometimes as a SUP i was mad because my team mates never turn back to heal and just die to pick an new bot ... WTF)

4.Every bot needs tune-up to be strong and mobility always > damage (Yeah just tune it before whine, mobility make you can survive easily to do more damage, less cost losing)

a bot can be broken that dont mean you can't deal with it, it just like why most of every boss fight in mmorg you need an party with good team works
just don't do it alone when you don't think you can defeat that target, back to your mates to require support and it ll be fine

I agree that more teamwork is needed however CBEN makes that hard by rotating the teams ever few matches giving you new teams, The only time when teamwork can be done is Epoch battles where you can seed in you adn your clan mats into the same match and the same side with easy to coorinate attacks.

In 15/15 or 30/30 that's hard to do as next match you might be on a different team or can't seed you and your friends on the same side.

People still think there's team work in union wars?

xzpwnz wrote:

People still think there's team work in union wars?

lol, you are right xz

I'd have to say broken means something that ignores said balance of the game; such as airs easily taking out arts. Overpowered means something that is obviously superior than any counterpart available. Aquila Girl being an example: is there any other airbot that can fill the same shoes as Aquila Girl? No other bot can play the role as well as she can, RT or not. I feel like people toss around broken and overpowered too easily.

to;dr for whatever reason :

Broken=Ignores overall mechanics of the game (see type triangle completely out of balance)
Overpowered=Obviously superior than any other available counter parts.

What role would you say that Aquila Girl does that no other bot can do, Trill?

Trill wrote:

I'd have to say broken means something that ignores said balance of the game; such as airs easily taking out arts. Overpowered means something that is obviously superior than any counterpart available. Aquila Girl being an example: is there any other airbot that can fill the same shoes as Aquila Girl? No other bot can play the role as well as she can, RT or not. I feel like people toss around broken and overpowered too easily.

to;dr for whatever reason :

Broken=Ignores overall mechanics of the game (see type triangle completely out of balance)
Overpowered=Obviously superior than any other available counter parts.

Actually your example of broken can be seen as balance. Air: higher mobility, ART: higher damage and range (and if well built, still awesome mobility). If an air blows up an ART unit, then you can make a pretty good case that the ART was bad, since the odds should be in their favor. If ART auto winned regardless of those factors, that would be broken, cause it would never be a remotely fair fight to begin with. It doesn't break game mechanics either, no glitching or exploits are used to accomplish that kill. Jikuns are a better example of being broken; they lag clip through everything when used by a large portion of the player base due to some shoddy coding. Same thing with "warping" caused by things like seraph tackle or hartigarm machine's jump melee. These don't always work as intended, thus making them broken attacks.

Trill wrote:

Aquila Girl being an example: is there any other airbot that can fill the same shoes as Aquila Girl? No other bot can play the role as well as she can, RT or not.

i dont know about you guys, but i fear both psycho clusters alot more, they are MUCH more dangerous to my lands with those pulse missiles and subweapon

Trill wrote:

Aquila Girl being an example: is there any other airbot that can fill the same shoes as Aquila Girl? No other bot can play the role as well as she can, RT or not.

how abt who can fill the role of seraf/clusters/airs with thoarla am3? every bot is unique and can be countered

Use more amateus, muchis, le reve, saggis, albatroll or heck a decently tuned zook holding bot instead of other easy-way-out bots and trolled by the same bot (for eg ahchan) all the time.

wads broken bot? more broken people.

xzpwnz wrote:

People still think there's team work in union wars?

xz, isn't Arena Battle also call as Union Wars?
did you mean Epoch War?

Having the word "Vanguard" in front of it.

Being an RT mech.

Lazyboy804 wrote:

Having the word "Vanguard" in front of it.

Short of re-naming your bot, if you're referring to any of the actual bots, then just shoot it.

MicroVolts wrote:

Trill wrote:

Aquila Girl being an example: is there any other airbot that can fill the same shoes as Aquila Girl? No other bot can play the role as well as she can, RT or not.

how abt who can fill the role of seraf/clusters/airs with thoarla am3? every bot is unique and can be countered

Use more amateus, muchis, le reve, saggis, albatroll or heck a decently tuned zook holding bot instead of other easy-way-out bots and trolled by the same bot (for eg ahchan) all the time.

wads broken bot? more broken people.

Again, said Ah-chan can out-DPS just about any single weapon in the game, especially once you factor in the other weapon missing more often than a homing blaster. I'm not saying that Aquila Girls are unbeatable, just that the combination of stats, a high-DPS homing weapon, and a small hitbox make her straight-up more powerful than other airs. Case in point: All those bots you mentioned to counter AGs can just as easily kill any other small air short of a winged Seraph (and, with good aim, most of them can take the Seraph, too). There's no bot in CB so broken that a suitably large advantage in skill or in preparedness can't overcome it. That doesn't mean it's not broken. Basically, I look at it this way: an AG can out-DPS any other small air and suffers no major disadvantages compared to them. She's just as fast, small, and agile as an unwinged Seraph. While other small airs may have certain advantages in certain roles, none of them, except for possibly a Seraph, can match her in terms of all-around usefulness.

...You know, I seem to be mentioning Seraphs a lot. If not for the existence of an anti-homing bit, I'd definitely be calling her broken, too, and with the relative rarity of said bit, Seraphs are still one of the top-tier air bots. Whether she's "broken" or not really depends on what your base power level is. Taking the average UC bot as a baseline, I'd say probably, but if you use shop RT bots as a baseline, she gets away with "really good."

Also, MicroVolts, it stands to point out that UC players have very limited access to the bots you keep mentioning. Half of them are also top-tier Gara-bots, which basically makes your solution "fight OPness with more OPness," and the rest require either a small RT investment or a large investment of UC, time, and luck. On top of that, you'll need a decent amount of skill advantage over the AG to successfully counter it. Pointing out some easily-obtainable UC solutions that require about the same skill level as the person flying the bot you're designating not "broken" is probably the best way to prove your point.

shadow_nekros wrote:

xzpwnz wrote:

People still think there's team work in union wars?

lol, you are right xz

The only Teamwork I have seen is Melee players hunting in pairs.
But after the first rush, we lose sight of each other and go our seperate ways.
One of us is bound to die, the other escapes.

LXE wrote:

shadow_nekros wrote:

xzpwnz wrote:

People still think there's team work in union wars?

lol, you are right xz

The only Teamwork I have seen is Melee players hunting in pairs.
But after the first rush, we lose sight of each other and go our seperate ways.
One of us is bound to die, the other escapes.

I NEED teamwork to function properly, and the only time I ever get decent teamwork is doing an EFB stack in a VS WIZ or VS BRD room. Any other time I'm often left on my own.

*Spams ** Need Backup! ** 20 times over to have ONE person come and help me ... 10 seconds AFTER I die*
^That's my usual scenario

I dont need teamwork as in the sense I need accompanyment, or like to travel in groups. I just want help when I spam ** Req. Support** about a million times and have been running for about 10 minutes