What makes a bot broken?

I am kind of curious what actually makes a bot broken in this game, Is it Ah-chan Homing abilities, Lily EVE cannon, Cannonballer ummm smallness??? (joke).

I hear it all the time either in the game or forums here about certain broken bots but what makes them broken, is it just the weapons, stats or something else?

The ability to not be able to fight back or retreat.
An enemy has a long ranged weapon and is fast, like Aqui-lag girl. She can dodge your missiles and your rifle shots, you can't use your more accurate close range weapons because she's too far. You can't run away either because of how fast she is. You're helpless and chances of survival are very minimal.

It is possible to fight back from meleers, retreating is difficult though.
It is possible to retreat from defencive ARTs, attacking is difficult.

Everything.

It depends on the bot. Sometimes it can be hard to pin down, but in CB, very few bots are overpowered just because of stat efficiency. Most of the time, it comes down to their unique abilities, which are often more powerful than anything other bots can equip. Here's my take on several bots commonly referred to as "broken":

• Aquila Girl's an easy one. Two words: homing blaster. A blaster has a very high max DPS, but usually only a fraction of that can hit the target, unless the target is very large (one reason blasters and shotguns are favored for boss runs). However, not only can the Aquila Girl focus all that DPS on single target, it's a homing weapon, and has pretty strong homing at that. This results in one of the highest DPSes in the game on a homing weapon that comes on a small, fast air core. Additionally, Fullboost means that Aquila Girls can fly for much longer than most airs, and are that much harder to ground and pin down.
  
• Lily Rain EVE isn't quite as much of a blatant example. I'd have to say a high-DPS, long-range weapon on a small core that comes with a shield, combined with good stats. Again, the small core is an issue; high-DPS or high-damage-per-shot weapons on small cores can make for some very annoying bots.
  
• Alpha-bots are one of my major complaints. In CB, it's hard to maintain a sustained burst of fire on a single bot and hit it, due to a combination of factors including general weapon inaccuracy, the fast-moving pace of the game, ridiculously close effective ranges, rather iffy aim assist, and a hard-to-see reticule that is easily lost. Alphas sacrifice sustained fire for very powerful bursts of fire that can cover large areas, basically gaining the firepower of several bots, which results in plenty of stunning. However, the real thing that makes them annoying is the ability to remain mobile during this from Moving Burst. Another major trend: mobility and high damage should not be so easily combined.
  
• Melees are mostly seen as broken for their ability to combo someone into oblivion quickly. Ivis and Fencers are both fragile, but hurt a lot, and, once they get ahold of a target, can rarely be convinced to let it go. Melee weapons have high damage, large hitboxes, and stun easily. Their short ranges then to make up for that, but in CB, guns are relatively short-ranged and robots move fast and can take plenty of hits to bring down. This makes the meta favor melee weapons more than other shooters.
  

I don't think that CB has any particularly difficult balance issues; everything mentioned above would be quite easily fixed. For example, to nerf alphas, just add diminishing returns (reduce damage dealt during an alpha strike by 5%*(n-1)^2 or in some similar manner), and that's one of the harder nerfs to make; most are just numerical or ability issues.

Don't want to go out of my way to list everything (because there's a lot)

>What makes a bot broken?

CS makes them broken.

Crappy balancing makes them broken.

Player.

if they respect each other and care for community this won't be happen.

like you got knife what will you use? use to chop to cook something or stab someone in the neck?

FreedomFighter wrote:

Player.

if they respect each other and care for community this won't be happen.

like you got knife what will you use? use to chop to cook something or stab someone in the neck?

Community or not, CB's balance sucks. If this game had not a single player, certain bots and builds would still be overpowered. One major problem that hasn't been mentioned yet is that the CBEN server shares balance changes with the CBJP server, and that all balance changes are based around CBJP feedback and the CBJP meta. CBEN's meta is different (not quite sure how), so certain bots are more powerful in the CBEN meta than the CBJP meta, turning a strong bot there into an overpowered one here.

Klinkin wrote:

• Melees are mostly seen as broken for their ability to combo someone into oblivion quickly. Melee weapons have high damage, large hitboxes, and stun easily. in CB, guns are relatively short-ranged and robots move fast and can take plenty of hits to bring down. This makes the meta favor melee weapons more than other shooters.
  

not sure if troll or newfag

xzpwnz wrote:

Don't want to go out of my way to list everything (because there's a lot)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

xzpwnz wrote:

Don't want to go out of my way to list everything (because there's a lot)

Everything is broken, and thus balanced, heh.

(´・ω・`) wrote:

Klinkin wrote:

• Melees are mostly seen as broken for their ability to combo someone into oblivion quickly. Melee weapons have high damage, large hitboxes, and stun easily. in CB, guns are relatively short-ranged and robots move fast and can take plenty of hits to bring down. This makes the meta favor melee weapons more than other shooters.
  

not sure if troll or newfag

That's how I personally see people thinking melees are overpowered. Not sure which of my statements are exactly wrong, either. I'm not saying that melees are broken; I've killed plenty of them rather easily, but if one can actually manage to get me, I rarely get away. Melees seem to be very high-risk, high-reward in CB.

Klinkin wrote:

That's how I personally see people thinking melees are overpowered. Not sure which of my statements are exactly wrong, either. I'm not saying that melees are broken; I've killed plenty of them rather easily, but if one can actually manage to get me, I rarely get away. Melees seem to be very high-risk, high-reward in CB.

That's usually from meleers using Vangaurd/Ivis/Kuten(Maybe)/Ouka/Other most popular melees. If there's a finishing attack, like Dae AM2 or Lancerlot AM5, it should push you far. With decent mobility, it's possible to get away then. Heavily damage, but alive.
You should recall your theory as "Stunlocks are OP".

Anti-homing

Spoiler:

Klinkin wrote:

Aquila Girl's an easy one. Two words: homing blaster. A blaster has a very high max DPS, but usually only a fraction of that can hit the target, unless the target is very large (one reason blasters and shotguns are favored for boss runs). However, not only can the Aquila Girl focus all that DPS on single target, it's a homing weapon, and has pretty strong homing at that. This results in one of the highest DPSes in the game on a homing weapon that comes on a small, fast air core. Additionally, Fullboost means that Aquila Girls can fly for much longer than most airs, and are that much harder to ground and pin down.

Here's a list of things people need to remember:

-Rail-guns, Linear Cannons, Speed tuned Bazookas (handy, titan, large, regular), Speed-tuned box missiles, ect...

-Saggy, Amateus, Destructor, Albatreos, Victory 1, ect...

-Dodging, Positioning, Team-work, ect...

^ 100% That.

20 wlk is pretty much is enough to dodge AG. If you can't, YOU are doing something wrong.

The only thing that's broken imo is EVE. She has everything a bot could strive for and she gets it all pretty easily. Great mobility with high fly and Float Dash, great range with her railgun, great damage with a little bit of charging, it's fast, and she has a great defense with that shield. She's all purpose and great at all of those. Best of all, the user aims the railgun, not some computerized homing.

Everything that's considered "broken" in this game is due to players who refuse to do common sense things and change their playing style due to the 'meta'. ARTs apparently are meant to be slow, speed tuning missiles aren't worth thinking about, LNDs don't need Handy Zookas and should instead see how quickly you can break your right-clicker, healers get pushed around, this all builds for an enviorment were Aquila Girls, Seraphs, Vanguards and everything "OP" reigns. Let's see a couple more Linear Canon builds for the Aquila Girls, some more guns for your melee bot so you can shoot other melee bots while they die like idiots, some aiming for your zooks at Seraphs and some ARTs that know how to move instead of having 0 fly and 1 wlk on your Destructor, slimmed down L ARTs. I'm sure the meta would change very quickly. CBJP is pretty sound proof that it's not CS's fault we have broken bots, it's people who refuse to play against them correctly or learn how to better themselves period.

Why should an Aquila Girl be considered "broken" by positioning herself in a position convenient for her, but LNDs jumping up and down trying to shoot them, ARTs that refuse to speed tune missiles or themselves, and anything else that doesn't want to learn how to sidestep? These are the same people who complain about her, who can't figure out how to position themselves.

CBen isn't as mature as CBjp. Players there (being pure UC or Rt) has larger stocks of tuned up parts and weapons, and more freedom to get better stuff for 0 Rt.

On topic, the answer is EVE and AG. EVE is obvious, AG because it's ridiculous to roll a particular set of bots out of pure paranoia induced by that scrub-proof bot. And there's this combination of factors that makes her OP: Some maps with incredibly convenient max altitude, seven boost charges to capitalize the previous, the homing blaster which has better tracking than most missiles regardless of terrain, and S size.

And there's Seraph but very few fags abuse tackle's invincibility frames plus wings...as if spamming wings like a champ weren't enough. Oh, another thing that makes bots OPs is lag, weapons with good tracking and distance traveled, you shouldn't have trouble finding fags relying on that nowadays.

I wouldn't call Eve OP, Eve requires a literally shitton of skill to play, and really needs more tunes to be good. *points to only like 5 good eves out of the ocean of them*

How to kill an EVE

Step one - Cut a hole in the box
Step two - Take Melee bot out of the box
Step three - Go on a rampage.

The only broken bot is Ah-chan. You can kill or be killed easily.

Stickboy wrote:

The only broken bot is Ah-chan. You can kill or be killed easily.

No, there are a lot of anti-AG builds out there that actually work.

Turkeysaur wrote:

AG because it's ridiculous to roll a particular set of bots out of pure paranoia induced by that scrub-proof bot.

Rolling an ART with at least 20 fly/wlk or so and a smaller size with some missiles that don't move at the speed of dirt, a LND with a Handy Zook, an anything with a Linear Canon, a slimmed down Saggy, an AIR with a mini zook and plenty of other ideas isn't "pure paranoia induced by a scrub-proof bot.", it's playing anti-air correctly period. Unless everyone is gearing their ARTs to fight Mach Knights nowadays you don't make the bot "specifically for AG", you make the bot "right", and that's that really.

LXE wrote:

How to kill an EVE

Step one - Cut a hole in the box
Step two - Take Melee bot out of the box
Step three - Go on a rampage.

A good EVE player with Float Dash should never be touched by melee.

Though I have to agree completely with LordShade, while I still believe the bot herself is OP, in the same way our metaplay makes AG OP, in EN our metaplay makes her not so OP. Given that, your steps would probably work fine. (Lol)

Kitouski wrote:

LXE wrote:

How to kill an EVE

Step one - Cut a hole in the box
Step two - Take Melee bot out of the box
Step three - Go on a rampage.

A good EVE player with Float Dash should never be touched by melee.

Though I have to agree completely with LordShade, while I still believe the bot herself is OP, in the same way our metaplay makes AG OP, in EN our metaplay makes her not so OP. Given that, your steps would probably work fine. (Lol)

If so, none of them are good. I managed to bash the crap out of every single one of them.

Turkeysaur wrote:

AG because it's ridiculous to roll a particular set of bots out of pure paranoia induced by that scrub-proof bot.

Whilst playing "Rock, Paper, Scissors" it is ridiculous to ever use paper just because you're afraid of someone using rock.

Kitouski wrote:

^ 100% That.

20 wlk is pretty much is enough to dodge AG. If you can't, YOU are doing something wrong.

LordShade and I really need to get around to recording a vid for this. The only times it shouldn't be dodgeable for you are if there are more enemies backing the AG up, or terrain is restricting your movement.

Kitouski wrote:

The only thing that's broken imo is EVE. She has everything a bot could strive for and she gets it all pretty easily. Great mobility with high fly and Float Dash, great range with her railgun, great damage with a little bit of charging, it's fast, and she has a great defense with that shield. She's all purpose and great at all of those. Best of all, the user aims the railgun, not some computerized homing.

Low DPS due to the charge time though.

And EVE shot is still restricted a bit by auto-aim, sadly.