Dont' bother upgrading your bots for Tec (upgrading guide)

So, I found out something new today after some experimenting and research.

This is my bot:



I was wondering earlier why my guns hit so low, even with high stats and great upgrade sequences. To figure out how hard they hit, on average, I went to quest mode to practice on the spawns.

The first hit damage, without crit, was consistently the same, and very low.

With my cross shooter, at 27 tech and 8 force on the gun, the damage was 10.

With my musket, 27 tech and 12 force, my damage was 15.

To test (by myself) whether force or tec was more important to damage, I equipped a mini-zook, with 23 force, but not having the upgrade on my musket (losing 3 tec), my stat was 24. The first hit damage for this was 25.

After some google searching around, I found a forum which complained about the damage equation, but more importantly, I found the damage equation itself.

On the cosmic break wiki, one of the (few) things it says is that ranged damage is:

(Weapon's Force) * (1 + 0.016 * (TEC-10))" rounded.

When I put this in, I didn't get exact, but numbers close to the ones I was experiencing. Then for fun, I put in random stats for tec with the actual force of my guns.

If my bot had FORTY TEC a big 4 0 force, it would still do pathetic damage with a musket.

(12) x (1+.016(40-10)) = 17.76. With 13 more force than before, it's damage goes up by about 2.

With a mini zook and 20 tec:

(23) x (1+.016(20-10)) =26.68. By using a weapon with less cost than an upgraded one, I would get better damage out of it, with less time wasted and money spent.

Long story short:

Find high force weapons, upgrade them for whatever stat penalties it gives and for whatever stat it is lacking in. With Zooka, Range/Ammo is a good idea, so is +walk.

Don't bother messing around with Tec, it's an unnecessary luxury.

These are things to keep in mind at all times when upgrading your bot:

Force > Str. Upgrade your sub weapons for force if you choose to get damage related upgrades. i.e. Grappler instead of +str.

Force > Tec. Upgrade your main weapons for force if you choose to get damage related upgrades. i.e. Force instead of +tec.

1 force is much better than 1 tec. Using Mini zook as an example and 20 tec as a base and the previous equation:

(23 force)(1+.016(20 tec-10)) = 26.68

(23 force)(1+.016(21 tec-10)) = 27.048

(24 force)(1+.016(20 tec-10)) = 27.86

(24 force)(1+.016(21 tec - 10)) = 28.224

HP > Tough. Why would anyone EVER get HP before Tough? Well...Cosmic Break has RPG elements, but isn't an RPG. Tough IS NOT defense. It does not reduce overall damage taken. Tough reduces stun and consecutive damage...machine guns, or anything with rapid fire. This will not (really) save you from Missiles and strong 1-Hit weapons. HP will allow you to live longer against them, giving it priority over Tough.

Walk/Fly > Tough. Moving out of the way is always better than getting hit. Always. Always. Always.

Don't neglect Tough though. Although stun doesn't have any visual affects when it happens, it still is very much so a status affect. If you've ever been Fire-All'd by a Winberrl (or me), you may realize that you shutter a bit when getting hit by too many shots at once. This is due to low tough. If you've ever watched someone boost their way out of it, this is because they have high tough and a good amount of HP so they didn't get troll'd.

Always get weapons for the situation in which you need them.

If you need range and are willing to sacrifice damage, get high ammo, high range weapons.

i.e. Rifle

If you need damage and have a way to close the gap, or are an art with long range missiles, get rockets or missiles
.
i.e. Bazooka, Missile Launcher, sub weapons..etc.

If you need speed and are a close range fighter, go for semi-auto to automatic weapons.

i.e. Hand gun/machine gun

There are weapons that cross these boundaries and give a lot of a stat in which these classes of weapons lack in.

For example, Vulcan has high Force as a machine gun, Titan Bazooka has long range as a Rocket, Cross Shooter has high speed as a ranged weapon.

Finally, keep in mind your primary antagonist. If you'll be fighting land more than Air or Art, use beam weapons with the stats you need. If you need to kills Air bots, use explosives...common knowledge, but vital all the same.

Shell/misc type weapons do universal damage and are always a good, neutral choice.

Damn. I was going to tune some bot legs for more tec. Thank goodness I read this in time.

Now I have to find 3 slot weapons with strong force

Is Cosmicbreak going to change the equation so TEC makes a big difference?

I don't know, I haven't played other versions, just did some research a bit too late.

Don't want anyone to suffer through what I went through though. Look at all those upgraded slots, lol.

You'd imagine that much tec could take out a small army, but only really with a good surprise attack and a lot of bullets hitting at once.

I see you got:
Stealth System
Broad Radar
Sniper Sight


That's something I'd like



I have a maxed level 8 destructor that I haven't used a level 8 card on yet.

The reason is because I haven't found many good 3 slot parts for him

Is it possible to find a Destructor body part with 3 slots in arancus? If the answer is yes, there's no way I can just swap the 3 slot body part vs my already leveled destructor is there?

I choose my bots very carefully, based on what cores they have.

If I had better weapons, and now, better upgrades, that bot would be the perfect ninja: can't be seen on radar, enemies can't tell if it's locked on and knows where everyone is on the map.

I don't know about destructor in particular, but I've found a lot of good 2/3 slot gear in Arcantus and while Arena-ing.

I see. Well I'm hoping to create a super strong but without having to spend a single $ for RT (until they get rid of the ridiculous prices).

Is there a webpage for all the bots and its internals level upgrade lists?

No. You have to just look at the cartridge list to figure out what it has available and once you level it to level 1 you can see what level you have to be to get all of its cartridges.

That's what I did for Dharma Star.

It'd be helpful if everyone started archiving information in the Wiki page

Only flaw in this is force upgrades only do so much. Most weapons will only get 1 force for the first force upgrade (because it has to round the 3% up to 1), and from what I've heard that only works the first time you tune for force so after that you get nothing for that 3%.

@OP
So...if I had the chance to pick between WLK/FLY and TEC, which should I choose? o_o

Oh god this is so wrong on so many levels.

First of all,
Before you even think about posting anything to help change peoples minds,
Make sure you cite your sources.
In this case,
Where the hell you got the damage calculator for ranged weapons and tech.

Secondly.
Unless you have alot of money to blow off tuning up,
You weren't here to be able to screw around with tune ups inside the betas.

A good estimate for weapons would be this.
To obtain the same amount of damage per force,
You need atleast 15 tech or str.
From then on it slowly upgrades.
There are some break points were huge bonuses are seen,
But those are obviously aren't know by many.

Considering what i've heard from other vetrans,
The average amount of damage you do to a neutral bot with melee is about 160% when maximized at 40.
For ranged weapons at 40 tech you have it at around 150%.

Now imagine you had a 20 force ranged weapon and a 20 force melee.
The average damage for the ranged weapon would be around 30 a shot.
For melee it would be around 32 a hit.

If you're saying an extra 10 damage a hit/bullet doesn't make a difference,
Well that must just be you.

Everything adds up to the point where it has a considerably big margin.

A Saggitary Maxis II cannon shoots 3 shots a round.
(Example chosen because that was my finalized bot inside OB2 with 40 tech and 40 wlk)
If that said cannon were at 30 force, and you had 40 tech, and all three of those shots hit,
You'd be dealing 125 damage to a single (neutral) target.
Compare that with a regular 15 tech bot and you'll only be dealing around 90 damage.

Do the math and its 35 extra damage you deal to the opponent's hp.

Indeed, it's wrong.

While force is good and must-have upgrade on low-force weapons (since you need lots of TEC otherwise), 30+ force weapons don't need 7-10 TEC to gain that damage bonus. And for multiple weapon setup you want TEC since you don't want to upgrade ALL weapons for force.

TEC/STR is good, never underestimate that stat.
Now imagine 3xWing Charge Seraph with low fly and 40 tec + high force plasma gun.
It will hit with 30 force (notice increased stun effect, almost 100% on low-tgh bots). And wings make up for lack of speed since they give you 40+ Fly speed anyway.

And if i were art with like 4 primary weapons, I won't ever think about force since 4 force upgrades will cost 40, it's +8 TEC with cheapest tunes (or at least +4 on force for 30+ force weapons).


Then, for TGH.
While it's not vital for S air bots, you need high TGH for melee. Never ever fought a byne with 40TGH? When everyone's trying to kill it and your wide beam gun hits for 2-3 per shot?
Or a destructor, who's getting picked by Seraph, once she lands like 3 hits, her 22 damage becomes 18, 3 more - and it's 15, more - and it's 12. Better than receiving 10x22, right?


Btw Desu, the formula for TEC is right. STR one is same, but with 0.025 multiplier. So you get 1.48 fo your base force for TEC weapons and 1.75 on STR weapons.

and most of all not many people are willing to spend money to do tune ups let alone have enoguh courage to tune with out the slot protector because it will waste your parts

Quote :

Then, for TGH.
While it's not vital for S air bots,

Less than vital actually, almost every single S sized flier has a initial tough stat of... well pretty low, that plus the fact the hp they have just wouldn't allow for the damage reduction from tough to even do anything (i mean the thing reduces form 22 to 15, and you are already blowing in to pieces). Also, since almost every single one of them has stun regain, sometimes its better to completely forget about tough, go with stun regain, and go for either alto of fly or tec, or both if you can work that one out.

Quote :

and most of all not many people are willing to spend money to do tune ups let alone have enough courage to tune with out the slot protector because it will waste your parts

Just wondering, where are you finding this slot protectors for UC/loot? cause if you don't want to spend money for tune ups, but you ain't willing to tune up without slot protectors, you are kind of stuck... Although i see the idea, if i find a 3 slot part that took me 3 quest runs to find, just to get one of the slots broken, my screams would probably be heard in china.

you need RT to buy slot protectors and some more money for harmonics

slot protectors and harmonice even though cost money can be used on UC or looted parts/weaon and RT parts

because well lets face it my last tune up of a 1 slot lily arm was around 60% even though the odds are good once it fails bye bye slot and HELLO SHIT LOAD OF ANGER

technomo12 wrote:

and most of all not many people are willing to spend money to do tune ups let alone have enoguh courage to tune with out the slot protector because it will waste your parts

Buy another part then, Lol.

@Desu: http://www.cosmicbreak.com/_/wiki/index.php?title=Robot_Assembly

By the way, where are you getting your info from, besides experience and it being anecdotal? Pretty much, the same thing I did, but I actually have an equation also.

Why would I upgrade a bot to 40 tec if so far, the bonus is almost negligible. If I need to find a 30 force weapon I can use on my bot first, what's the point of going all out for Tec upgrades. I didn't say leave your Tec at 0, because it does have an affect on damage, it just doesn't seem to be nearly as high as a factor.

@Koi: I'd underestimate Tec because the raw amount of Tec needed to compensate for low force...doesn't ever really compensate. Tec is important because it affects all ranged weapons on the character, meaning it'll make the low and high Force guns hit harder, but only by a small margin. Unless there's some sort of equation that also factors in to a huge damage boost for having multiples of 10 amounts of Force (10.20.30.40) . then it's hard to believe. Not saying it isn't true, but someone with this amount of force would have to prove it to me on a damage neutral bot.

The reason I tested my damage in Quest mode is because I was using Shell/Misc. Based guns on the bots there. With explosives, I tested them on Marimos (sp?) in which the damage was consistent on every other bot in the map also. Only the first hit too, to see what the base damage of the shots were, not factoring in whatever tough they had. This was to test whether or not force > tec, in which it is.

The real mission is to find job is to find high tec weapons your bot size can use, then upgrading them for force. Tec, maybe, but if it's -movement, like a bazooka, compensating for the loss of walk seems smarter than upping Tec.

Spoiler:

BRO BRO BRO YOU NEED A CALCULATOR!

Even with your calculations, it's still 148% range damage at 40 TEC.
So let's say I have a gun with 20 force. 20*1.48 = 29.6
Now, if you don't tune for TEC, let's say it's 28 TEC.
(Each force upgrade gives me +5% force, but I could use +4 TEC for that.)
So now let's go for a gun with 20+3 force upgrades. 21*1.438 = 28.76

OVERALL ITS A LOWER DAMAGE, INNIT?

Now, let's go for a melee weapon: Let's say, 40 STR.
If I use a weapon with 20 force. 20*1.75 = 35
So now, let's go for 3 grapplers instead, hmm?
So now my bot has 28 STR and +15% damage.
If I use a weapon with 20 force. 20*1.6 = 32

That's the damage difference, bro.

Against Various Types, Without Cartridges:

Spoiler:

Ah, Piro, you're wrong. Force/Grappler is only 3% and it's only boost% which is increased, you can't do 2 force tunes to get +2 on low-force weapon.
Say, you have 20 force gun, you tune it for 6% worth of force - you receive +2 bonus. (20*0.06 = 1.2; ceil(1.2) = 2;) Not to mention you need 2 slots or you will take damage or range penalty (-7%).

koi wrote:

Ah, Piro, you're wrong. Force/Grappler is only 3% and it's only boost% which is increased, you can't do 2 force tunes to get +2 on low-force weapon.
Say, you have 20 force gun, you tune it for 6% worth of force - you receive +2 bonus. (20*0.06 = 1.2; ceil(1.2) = 2;) Not to mention you need 2 slots or you will take damage or range penalty (-7%).

THAT MAKES IT EVEN MORE WORTHLESS

I'm pretty sure I'm right on this one.

Despite whether it's str or tec, Force is the higher determining factor on the damage dealt. Despite upping your tec/str to a high degree, it doesn't have the same affect as slightly increasing the force.

The moral of the story is to upgrade for Force, first, until the number no longer goes up from upgrades, and secondarily, upgrade for the penalties you receive from the weapon, if any, and tertiary, for str/tec.

Grapple, for example, doesn't add +3% damage. It adds +3% force, which may increase the force of your weapon by 1.

The only upgrade that I know of that adds +% damage is Breaker.

The thing with this is, even so, +1 force is better than +1 tec, and so on, to a noticeable degree.

BB wrote:

I'm pretty sure I'm right on this one.

Despite whether it's str or tec, Force is the higher determining factor on the damage dealt. Despite upping your tec/str to a high degree, it doesn't have the same affect as slightly increasing the force.

The moral of the story is to upgrade for Force, first, until the number no longer goes up from upgrades, and secondarily, upgrade for the penalties you receive from the weapon, if any, and tertiary, for str/tec.

Grapple, for example, doesn't add +3% damage. It adds +3% force, which may increase the force of your weapon by 1.

The only upgrade that I know of that adds +% damage is Breaker.

The thing with this is, even so, +1 force is better than +1 tec, and so on, to a noticeable degree.

Still, with the cost you're pouring into it, I could get a better deal.

I found this out myself before reading this guide. But this also clears up some questions I had afterward as well.

Personally, I use the Cosmos Pot to raise HP, or WLK/FLY, depending on the bot type.

Want big numbers? Go ART.

BB wrote:

I'm pretty sure I'm right on this one.

Go back to the basics.. force is for only the weapon you upgrade, tec/str are upgrading all of the same type of weapons you use (like your 4 misside arms+ 4 mini bazookas+ D.CN internal bazooka+ Cacpetus HD... lol) .

(so you are probably better with force upgrade if you use 1 or maybe 2 weapon(s) and better off with tec/str if you use a lot of weapons... )

also .. buy some roflcopters.

Idontlive wrote:

BB wrote:

I'm pretty sure I'm right on this one.

Go back to the basics.. force is for only the weapon you upgrade, tec/str are upgrading all of the same type of weapons you use (like your 4 misside arms+ 4 mini bazookas+ D.CN internal bazooka+ Cacpetus HD... lol) .

(so you are probably better with force upgrade if you use 1 or maybe 2 weapon(s) and better off with tec/str if you use a lot of weapons... )

also .. buy some roflcopters.

I've said this myself, and this has also been said several times already in the thread.

You're not proving anything.