Dont' bother upgrading your bots for Tec (upgrading guide)

There is never a useless improvement, all improvements are useful. Improving TEC gives more accuracy to the bot and therfore the projectile will do more damage. BB, what you're neglecting is what the TEC provides, and yet you're saying to us that all bots should be bad shots because big guns will do all the talking. This is wrong, what's the use of shooting when no projectiles will hit, or let alone cause some damage? Desu and koi are right, you really need to think this over.

BB wrote:

You're not proving anything.

Except for 2 things:
1. that your opinions are only fine from a certain perspective ? (pipesight* ftw)
2. that your thread is pointless ? (it is considering its trollfood already with nice flamewarz going on)

oh and.. that you need moar roflcopters, so go buy some moaaar!

* - is this how they say it ? oh well.. I dont care anyway...

LXE wrote:

There is never a useless improvement, all improvements are useful. Improving TEC gives more accuracy to the bot and therfore the projectile will do more damage. BB, what you're neglecting is what the TEC provides, and yet you're saying to us that all bots should be bad shots because big guns will do all the talking. This is wrong, what's the use of shooting when no projectiles will hit, or let alone cause some damage? Desu and koi are right, you really need to think this over.

Where does it say that Tec affects accuracy? I haven't seen this anywhere, ever. Not saying it isn't true, but I rather have some source in to which this is said. It isn't even said in the loading screen bumps.

Tec does affect damage, but marginally. To me, it seems to be for optimalizing damage, but my point is that Force is where you start when seeking damage. It's not that "Big guns do the talking," it's that damage does the talking and that it seems to be more vital to choose a gun that does the damage first and then upgrade for tec, somewhere afterwards when the more important stats are out of the way.

Tec in doing damage is good in the sense that it affects all weapons, so if you have an integrated weapon, that would help, since it can't be upgraded, but in virtually any other scenario, from what can be proven with numbers, it doesn't seem to be a primary focus.

RST-00 wrote:

technomo12 wrote:

and most of all not many people are willing to spend money to do tune ups let alone have enoguh courage to tune with out the slot protector because it will waste your parts

Buy another part then, Lol.

not all parts can be bought some parts are ques/mission/arena items only

-

Tech does not increase accuracy but it increases all range attacks be it wonder bits or built in range weapons to a simple accel gun same goes for Str but

here is the thing what tech and str lack in force MAKE up for the ROCK PAPER SCISSORS system

in short tech/str increases your damage multiplier on certain enemy more than force

that certain enemies are what we are see on loading screen the air weak against explosive art weak against melee and lnd weak against beam weapons

Spoiler:

Case in point, I'd rather boost my TEC and gain overall damage performance than tune for force on individual weapons.

It's more economical, not to mention more useful. Once you swap out that weapon, you lose all the force you had on it; TEC on parts tends to improve and solidify your positions and capabilities.

piroton wrote:

Spoiler:

Case in point, I'd rather boost my TEC and gain overall damage performance than tune for force on individual weapons.

It's more economical, not to mention more useful. Once you swap out that weapon, you lose all the force you had on it; TEC on parts tends to improve and solidify your positions and capabilities.

True, but if you build your bot with a purpose, the only time you'd really have to switch the weapons out is in a circumstance where you find a better weapon, right?

So if you remove those weapons, which most likely were upgraded also, you're losing that tec anyways, just keeping the tec on the slotted items that you possibly upgraded for that reason. If you upgrade Tec to the point in which you can rely on a high stat without slots on weapons, then doesn't that mean you're most likely missing out on say...Walk or Fly?

I mean, you could always just get high Tec parts while assembling the bot, but beyond that, where is the benefit?

The thing about upgrading for Force is that you don't lose stats on the bot. I rather have my weapon take a penalty than my bot.

Also, please, fellow forumers, don't take this the wrong way.

I am not narrow minded, or "pipe minded". I just haven't been given a convincing argument to the reason why Tec is a PRIORITY. It has its implications, but it isn't a forerunner, in my opinion. For this reason is why I suggest not upgrading for it as a priority, because those tune-up parts could go to something that would add more survivability.

BB wrote:

piroton wrote:

Spoiler:

Case in point, I'd rather boost my TEC and gain overall damage performance than tune for force on individual weapons.

It's more economical, not to mention more useful. Once you swap out that weapon, you lose all the force you had on it; TEC on parts tends to improve and solidify your positions and capabilities.

True, but if you build your bot with a purpose, the only time you'd really have to switch the weapons out is in a circumstance where you find a better weapon, right?

So if you remove those weapons, which most likely were upgraded also, you're losing that tec anyways, just keeping the tec on the slotted items that you possibly upgraded for that reason. If you upgrade Tec to the point in which you can rely on a high stat without slots on weapons, then doesn't that mean you're most likely missing out on say...Walk or Fly?

I mean, you could always just get high Tec parts while assembling the bot, but beyond that, where is the benefit?

The thing about upgrading for Force is that you don't lose stats on the bot. I rather have my weapon take a penalty than my bot.

Also, please, fellow forumers, don't take this the wrong way.

I am not narrow minded, or "pipe minded". I just haven't been given a convincing argument to the reason why Tec is a PRIORITY. It has its implications, but it isn't a forerunner, in my opinion. For this reason is why I suggest not upgrading for it as a priority, because those tune-up parts could go to something that would add more survivability.

given by your post

yes force is better than than tec..........on neutral enemis like supports bots or mobs

if ya really wanna know try testing it out on air , lnd and art bots on team arena

because tech increases your damage multiplier depending on your weapon and your enemy

and since arcantus mosnters are well all land rather even though there are air the damge multiplier does not affect the

rather we are affected by their weaponries

technomo12 wrote:

BB wrote:

piroton wrote:

Spoiler:

Case in point, I'd rather boost my TEC and gain overall damage performance than tune for force on individual weapons.

It's more economical, not to mention more useful. Once you swap out that weapon, you lose all the force you had on it; TEC on parts tends to improve and solidify your positions and capabilities.

True, but if you build your bot with a purpose, the only time you'd really have to switch the weapons out is in a circumstance where you find a better weapon, right?

So if you remove those weapons, which most likely were upgraded also, you're losing that tec anyways, just keeping the tec on the slotted items that you possibly upgraded for that reason. If you upgrade Tec to the point in which you can rely on a high stat without slots on weapons, then doesn't that mean you're most likely missing out on say...Walk or Fly?

I mean, you could always just get high Tec parts while assembling the bot, but beyond that, where is the benefit?

The thing about upgrading for Force is that you don't lose stats on the bot. I rather have my weapon take a penalty than my bot.

Also, please, fellow forumers, don't take this the wrong way.

I am not narrow minded, or "pipe minded". I just haven't been given a convincing argument to the reason why Tec is a PRIORITY. It has its implications, but it isn't a forerunner, in my opinion. For this reason is why I suggest not upgrading for it as a priority, because those tune-up parts could go to something that would add more survivability.

given by your post

yes force is better than than tec..........on neutral enemis like supports bots or mobs

if ya really wanna know try testing it out on air , lnd and art bots on team arena

because tech increases your damage multiplier depending on your weapon and your enemy

and since arcantus mosnters are well all land rather even though there are air the damge multiplier does not affect the

rather we are affected by their weaponries

I realized that Arcantus mobs are all land, but I tried it in Arena also, using a different gun with higher force. The first hit with the higher force gun and lower tec was still higher than the high tec, low force gun. With two beam rifles, both 20 force after High Force upgrades, they're hitting much higher now, especially on lands, with no Accuracy penalty.

I have no intention of saying that "Tec affects Accuracy" isn't true, but I have not experienced or heard this from any non-player sources.

As far as damage, in percent, I would have to see this also, though it might be true.

My post is to advise people to leave the bot at a default level of Tec, not to not have any at all. It's about upgrading bots for Tec, not about slashing the stat down to near 0 in favor of Force.

From what I see this topic you made is starting a completely pointless huge forum war on whether TEC is useful. Yeah...
...good job BB...
Try shooting with a High TEC bot and then try a Low TEC bot and mark out the differences. Stop criticizing other people and accept their views, the answer was already clear from the beginning, TEC should be upgraded if need be. You're saying it's useless, so therefore because of this, people won't fully accept your view.
BTW, I don't see how this is a guide, it is more like a mass debate of some sort.
In a real guide, the author gives the reader guidance by hints, tips, good points answers to questions, solutions to problems etc. Here you're just criticizing, flaming trolling, and just being so self centered, since when did people want to be controlled by you? You're not making any sense at all.

LXE wrote:

From what I see this topic you made is starting a completely pointless huge forum war on whether TEC is useful. Yeah...
...good job BB...
Try shooting with a High TEC bot and then try a Low TEC bot and mark out the differences. Stop criticizing other people and accept their views, the answer was already clear from the beginning, TEC should be upgraded if need be. You're saying it's useless, so therefore because of this, people won't fully accept your view.

It's not a war if I'm not attacking anyone, is it?

Once again, not saying tec is useless.

I'm saying it's not a priority, in most scenarios. If you want to upgrade it, fine, but my reasoning is that for people who are looking for damage first, that it would be a supplement to damage and not the main stat as advertised, ironically. I've said this several times now.

Other people are arguing to me, the validity of Tec as a stat, when that was never my point in the first place and I reiterate every time.

BB wrote:

LXE wrote:

From what I see this topic you made is starting a completely pointless huge forum war on whether TEC is useful. Yeah...
...good job BB...
Try shooting with a High TEC bot and then try a Low TEC bot and mark out the differences. Stop criticizing other people and accept their views, the answer was already clear from the beginning, TEC should be upgraded if need be. You're saying it's useless, so therefore because of this, people won't fully accept your view.

It's not a war if I'm not attacking anyone, is it?

Once again, not saying tec is useless.

I'm saying it's not a priority, in most scenarios. If you want to upgrade it, fine, but my reasoning is that for people who are looking for damage first, that it would be a supplement to damage and not the main stat as advertised, ironically. I've said this several times now.

Other people are arguing to me, the validity of Tec as a stat, when that was never my point in the first place and I reiterate every time.

Read the second half of my comment and people might agree with you. And of course we're all arguing against you, you attacked our perspective, so we'll bite back. You made us do it with your own two hands. Simple as that.

LXE wrote:

BB wrote:

LXE wrote:

From what I see this topic you made is starting a completely pointless huge forum war on whether TEC is useful. Yeah...
...good job BB...
Try shooting with a High TEC bot and then try a Low TEC bot and mark out the differences. Stop criticizing other people and accept their views, the answer was already clear from the beginning, TEC should be upgraded if need be. You're saying it's useless, so therefore because of this, people won't fully accept your view.

It's not a war if I'm not attacking anyone, is it?

Once again, not saying tec is useless.

I'm saying it's not a priority, in most scenarios. If you want to upgrade it, fine, but my reasoning is that for people who are looking for damage first, that it would be a supplement to damage and not the main stat as advertised, ironically. I've said this several times now.

Other people are arguing to me, the validity of Tec as a stat, when that was never my point in the first place and I reiterate every time.

Read the second half of my comment and people might agree with you. And of course we're all arguing against you, you attacked our perspective, so we'll bite back. You made us do it with your own two hands. Simple as that.

Please don't force any unnecessary situations by making accusations. So far no one made anyone do anything. Posting is optional, as is this response.

I read your comment. All of mine say they tec is not for DPS. It's a supplement to damage, not the main stat.

The only place that could have been remotely construed as tec being useless is when I say it's a luxury. In which I believe it is. You get it in addition to what you already have to slightly modify damage. Accuracy, I don't know about. That's all.

To assume anything else is silly.

You guys are still talking in this topic? WTF?

hurr can we stop this dumbfuckery. LXE already made the point and so has Desu can we just drop this stupidity?

FullThrottle wrote:

You guys are still talking in this topic? WTF?

hurr can we stop this dumbfuckery. LXE already made the point and so has Desu can we just drop this stupidity?

Exactly, I just can't see why I should help this BB. Fights over the internet are pointless. Settle it in a Game of CosmicBreak.
After all that, he still is screwing around with our perspective!
Exactly right you are FullThrottle. WTF is this? He can't prove anything! Drop this stupidity and move on I say.

@ BB
If you still insist on attacking our perspective, then BB, you really are an idiot.

LXE wrote:

FullThrottle wrote:

You guys are still talking in this topic? WTF?

hurr can we stop this dumbfuckery. LXE already made the point and so has Desu can we just drop this stupidity?

Exactly, I just can't see why I should help this BB. Fights over the internet are pointless. Settle it in a Game of CosmicBreak.

that and the fact the point was made. I mean if this was a debate on 2 points of view, I can understand continuing discussion, but the fact is it's not so I can't understand why he can't just drop it.

FullThrottle wrote:

LXE wrote:

FullThrottle wrote:

You guys are still talking in this topic? WTF?

hurr can we stop this dumbfuckery. LXE already made the point and so has Desu can we just drop this stupidity?

Exactly, I just can't see why I should help this BB. Fights over the internet are pointless. Settle it in a Game of CosmicBreak.

that and the fact the point was made. I mean if this was a debate on 2 points of view, I can understand continuing discussion, but the fact is it's not so I can't understand why he can't just drop it.

Holding on to it seems like a stupid idea. He must have some motive to do so. But then again, CosmicBreak is just a game at the end of the day.

Your angry for no reason and also trying to villianize me for no reason.

You're getting defensive about "your perspective" but mine is the only one backed by numbers and is testable.

If you want to start calling names, really, please stop responding.

This guide is both adequate and appropriate for the same reasons it was posted in the first place.

If you don't like it, don't use it. It's that simple.

BB wrote:

Your angry for no reason and also trying to villianize me for no reason.

You're getting defensive about "your perspective" but mine is the only one backed by numbers and is testable.

If you want to start calling names, really, please stop responding.

This guide is both adequate and appropriate for the same reasons it was posted in the first place.

If you don't like it, don't use it. It's that simple.

You're the one who's getting angry, I absolutely don't care. This guide won't change anything anyway, so I was really stupid to defend what other people hold dear. How am I villianizing you? I am just telling you to stop criticizing our views because every reply you make is saying the same thing.

Other people - We don't agree, it's more like this
You - You're wrong, I am correct.
Me - I agree with the other people
You - Just shut up and accept my perspective.

And then we are stuck in a situation where no resolution can be made. I see you just don't want to admit that you are wrong, which is fine with me. I don't need to argue with you. I can enjoy the greener pastures of supportive topics like, "How should we help?", "What would make CosmicBreak better?", etc.

You start a topic and then it leads to a lot of hate from other people, how does this prove that you have adequate and appropriate reaons to post this? You probably did it because it's a forum, and you post things in a forum. No reason can be given at all. It's basic human behaviour. Desu and Koi made the big points that proves your points are wrong and yet you insist on continuing, and I step in to try to resolve this and you still insist on continuing. So, therefore I don't see any point in helping you or arguing with you. You just won't change. It's pointless to argue with stubborn people.

So should this be my last comment here, you made the right choice.

Thank you for not responding, now no one has to worry about you derailing my thread anymore.

Thank you Koi and Desu both, because although you didn't agree, you weren't hostile about it.

Also, you didn't argue the fact that Force is a higher determining factor than Tec, but the validity of Tec itself.

Although it does have its implications, THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT TEC BEING USELESS, NEVER WAS and the fact that you brought it there at all completely defeated the purpose of this in the first place.

Just to clear this up:


1) Nowhere in this thread was there ever an acknowledgment of the targets you were hitting. Yes, it matters, because if the target has blast guard there goes 50% of your attack from blast weapons. No consideration for the guard carts at all.

2) No mention of weapons and their damage types nor of mixed damage type weaponry. (this relates to the previous point)

3) TEC is clearly described in the in-game FAQ and the main site FAQ. So are the other stats.

4) The system works in scales. At every 10 point mark you notice a greater boost to your performance. You had 27 TEC, so you notice a 2 point increase, but it's actually hitting for 25.7 when it hits, but only shows whole numbers, nothing partial. That is only if the target does not have a guard cart effecting the shot. If 40% of the damage from the shot is blast, then you will only hit with 80% of your attack vs a target with Blast Guard (50% reduction).

5) There are times when the TEC/STR boost is the lesser choice, however, get enough of them stacking together and it can improve a bot well enough. Movement tunes are the most noticeable improvements (WLK/FLY), similar with TGH.

ChaosOmni wrote:

Just to clear this up:


1) Nowhere in this thread was there ever an acknowledgment of the targets you were hitting. Yes, it matters, because if the target has blast guard there goes 50% of your attack from blast weapons. No consideration for the guard carts at all.

2) No mention of weapons and their damage types nor of mixed damage type weaponry. (this relates to the previous point)

3) TEC is clearly described in the in-game FAQ and the main site FAQ. So are the other stats.

4) The system works in scales. At every 10 point mark you notice a greater boost to your performance. You had 27 TEC, so you notice a 2 point increase, but it's actually hitting for 25.7 when it hits, but only shows whole numbers, nothing partial. That is only if the target does not have a guard cart effecting the shot. If 40% of the damage from the shot is blast, then you will only hit with 80% of your attack vs a target with Blast Guard (50% reduction).

5) There are times when the TEC/STR boost is the lesser choice, however, get enough of them stacking together and it can improve a bot well enough. Movement tunes are the most noticeable improvements (WLK/FLY), similar with TGH.

If you're talking to me, this was all mentioned in the first post.

8 force cross shooter, 12 force musket, 23 force mini zook. Tec stats were also mentioned in the first post.

Targets were mentioned in the first post. Land bots in Arcantus quest. In PvP, I tried my damage on a land bot, but it was a damage neutral weapon, which I've also mentioned.

I've read CB ENG Wiki/JP Wiki and the main site, as well as threads on the forums, where do you think I got my equation from?

Also, thank you for the clarification.

Tec give a marginal increase in damage. That said weapons that fire quickly benefit more from a tech upgrade (such as machine guns and lasers) than say a bazooka (a high force and slow interval weapon).

The reasoning behind that is that even if your high tech gives you only say...an extra 2-3 damage, that adds on quickly on weapons with a high fire rate meaning you effectively get an extra 20-30 damage out of 10 shots that an unloaded in a short period of time.

The other reason would be to raise tec to match str, for wonder-bit purposes.

So in the end force is the main factor in weapon damage, tec provides a bonus that is effective dependent on weapon load out.

BB wrote:

ChaosOmni wrote:

Just to clear this up:


1) Nowhere in this thread was there ever an acknowledgment of the targets you were hitting. Yes, it matters, because if the target has blast guard there goes 50% of your attack from blast weapons. No consideration for the guard carts at all.

2) No mention of weapons and their damage types nor of mixed damage type weaponry. (this relates to the previous point)

3) TEC is clearly described in the in-game FAQ and the main site FAQ. So are the other stats.

4) The system works in scales. At every 10 point mark you notice a greater boost to your performance. You had 27 TEC, so you notice a 2 point increase, but it's actually hitting for 25.7 when it hits, but only shows whole numbers, nothing partial. That is only if the target does not have a guard cart effecting the shot. If 40% of the damage from the shot is blast, then you will only hit with 80% of your attack vs a target with Blast Guard (50% reduction).

5) There are times when the TEC/STR boost is the lesser choice, however, get enough of them stacking together and it can improve a bot well enough. Movement tunes are the most noticeable improvements (WLK/FLY), similar with TGH.

If you're talking to me, this was all mentioned in the first post.

8 force cross shooter, 12 force musket, 23 force mini zook. Tec stats were also mentioned in the first post.

Targets were mentioned in the first post. Land bots in Arcantus quest. In PvP, I tried my damage on a land bot, but it was a damage neutral weapon, which I've also mentioned.

I've read CB ENG Wiki/JP Wiki and the main site, as well as threads on the forums, where do you think I got my equation from?

Also, thank you for the clarification.

Ah... I seemed to have skimmed over... anyway, Goblin is LND, Wootree is ART, and Manimo is LND I think. You don't have testing VS AIR and SUP types when you're testing via first area Arcantus. Arcantus does not work out so well to gauge effectiveness by, because there are no carts used on these bots to test, and they all have crappy TGH stats.

If you wish to test and have better results in general, start a locked team room with someone and test out and document weaponry/defenses with various builds/weapons. You'll get better results.


I'm also not talking force nor weapon type as in what it says it is when I said type, I'm talking the legit factor of the projectile, which is a hidden stat.

Did you came across tiw or someone else mentioning that the bazookas have varying shell/blast damage ratios?


and as Intet said, the STR/TEC boosts can be exploited to improve wonder bit performance, which requires balanced STR/TEC... which seemed overlooked.


The thing is, it is on the tuner to pick a preference for tuning. Even if you tuned for TEC or FORCE, what does it matter if you can't hit the enemy or the enemy can resist your weapon enough to frag you first? In general both are choices that while nice, you will generally find it better to tune for WLK, FLY, or TGH, so you can avoid or take attacks better. Ammo, Speed, Range, and status effect tunes are the better options on weapons. TEC tunes should be put more on the frame/body parts unless you are content on the weaponry applied and have enough CAPA to fit the upgrades.

You guys still refuse to drop this issue right? We don't need to go on repeating what half the forumers have said over and over again. Please just drop this unnecessary topic. This is not a guide but a speculation based on "supposed" evidence OP thought he had.

Again Desu was right, quote your damn sources next time. Now let's drop this POS topic before I start calling mods in here to close this thing. <_<

FullThrottle wrote:

You guys still refuse to drop this issue right? We don't need to go on repeating what half the forumers have said over and over again. Please just drop this unnecessary topic. This is not a guide but a speculation based on "supposed" evidence OP thought he had.

Again Desu was right, quote your damn sources next time. Now let's drop this POS topic before I start calling mods in here to close this thing. <_<

And I will do the same as FullThrottle.

@ BB

Remember what I said?

Spoiler:

This debate has already been settled, please do not continure unnecessary arguments.