Artillery <3 ???

So the influx of Ivis has already arrived. Now get ready for the influx of oukas. Have fun large artillery users =D

*has a Lily Rain with 2 Muskets, 2 Folded Rifle AMJs and Moving Burst*

Bring it.

Moving burst...~

what bots are capable of using that?

can arts only have that cartridge or no? i'm really trying to get my hands and a bot that can use it~

various bots have it. though...given the reach of ouka's blade, moving burst might not be enough to save you, Nova.

What about controlled bursts while in flight? 'Course, Lily can't last long enough in the air to gain distance.

Ah well, I'll just hope on the fact that I get a few shots out before Ouka sees me.

Daylyt wrote:

Moving burst...~

what bots are capable of using that?

can arts only have that cartridge or no? i'm really trying to get my hands and a bot that can use it~

Lily has it, as well as some land bots like Zero Saber Girl.

NovaZero wrote:

*has a Lily Rain with 2 Muskets, 2 Folded Rifle AMJs and Moving Burst*.

Eeep... Guard Skill: Hand Sonic, Distortion.

anyways if theres gona be huge mass of oukas then only thing i have to say is yay more beam food for mah airs

The art of the Samurai fueled by vengeance versus fencing fueled by dark lesbian rage.

The wind and the cherry blossoms clash with elegance and beauty.

Ouka versus Ivis.

East meets West.

THE WHEEL OF FATE IS TURNING

werty16 wrote:

anyways if theres gona be huge mass of oukas then only thing i have to say is yay more beam food for mah airs

Have fun wasting ammo =]

If Ouka vs Ivis then i bet that Ivis will win, oh yeah, don't be too confidence like that because of playing Ouka against large art, art only need to fly up and use burner or LL size bazooka then Ouka is nothing to them, but if you play Ivis and have anti radar then large art will have a huge trouble about it because Ivis can attack both on land and air (not too high)

LeoAurico wrote:

If Ouka vs Ivis then i bet that Ivis will win, oh yeah, don't be too confidence like that because of playing Ouka against large art, art only need to fly up and use burner or LL size bazooka then Ouka is nothing to them, but if you play Ivis and have anti radar then large art will have a huge trouble about it because Ivis can attack both on land and air (not too high)

ps i dont use ivis =D

I know Ivis hurts large emch.

But you know what hurts large mech more than just ivis?

Ivis + Ouka =D

@Leo

1) ouka has a built in distance attack~ (projectile) (stock)

ivis only has a ranged attack~ (melee that reaches outside of her normal melee range~) (the flaw with this attack is explain'd in "2)")
in order for ivis to have a distance attack (not ranged), it would require modding of some sort~

2) Also~ Ouka only has one install animation before she can perform an attack~ and that is the slashing dash attack (ouka raisen, i think the name is?)~ (and this is literally not need'd in battle~)

however, Ivis's main weapon has install animations and have a time limit~ (this isnt a great thing to activate right in the middle of battle and if u run out of time with sacrifice, it results in a power down. (simply the range power down.)

if i remember correctly also, ouka has a built in shield on some part of her body, this is great for rushing if u know where that shield is and can protect urself properly~ (ivis has no built in protection)

the only thing i can see ivis having over an ouka is the fact that if all her installs are completed, she can take on groups of bots by herself, but even then itz comes down to the skill of the player to not get demolish'd before she can get kills~ (which in the end, ouka is capable of doing in the right hands as well, if it comes down to skill~) (this would also require a ivis to be modified at one point, while ouka remains a stock bot.)


3) ivis eliminates a weapon when she activates her rapier and the weapon does NOT come back until she respawns~

Ouka doesnt eliminate any of her weapons, she only disables them~ (depending on which mode she is in) her weapons can be reactivated~


The only way i can see an ivis posing a threat to an ouka is if the ivis user (regardless if stock or mod) is if the ivis user is an experienced one~

simply put imho:

ouka (stock) > ivis (stock)

ouka (mod) >> ivis (stock) or (mod)

ouka (stock) =?= ivis (mod) maybe??? (but this is when it simply comes down to the skill of the player~ so this still cannot really be decided)

ivis may be a menace to fight, but after testing out the ouka in the mission mode, i've found ouka much more useful and devastating~


@Nova

lol blazblue yuri referencing~

+ Pros
- Cons

Ouka
+Primary attack "Slash"
+Auto dodge-attack after every right click
+Left shoulder guard acts as built-in shield
+Can equip 2 BS parts
+Ouka LG are interchangable
-Slash has slow rate of fire and weak damage
-Ouka Raisen not very practical in arena
-Really stuck with her katana
-Low starting STR(13)
-Autogun Bit as default

Ivis
+Sacrifice does 8 hits
+Good STR and WLK values
+Can equip weapons
+Crimson Veil grants super armor and monstrous Sacrifice range with a simple right click
+All her parts save Ivis BD have 3 tuning slots
-None of her parts are interchangable
-Sacrifice automatically replaces whatever was on her left arm the second you equip it
-Sacrifice has crap range without Crimson Veil

IMO, if Ivis and Ouka clash then Ivis wins on account that...
-Ivis has super armor and increased range thanks to Crimson Veil
-Ouka flinches and her shoulder guard would break anyway
-Ivis can just turn on Sacrifice the second she spawns
-Ivis has 3 chances to turn on Crimson Veil and can be increased with Internal Upgrade carts.

NovaZero wrote:

... -Ivis has 3 chances to turn on Crimson Veil and can be increased with Internal Upgrade carts.

explain that part, nova? i dont understand it~

also, all the points u've stated are true (minus the arena practical part, that just depends on the player~)

but super armor and the fact that she has installs that are required in order to reach her full abilities are more of a con than a pro (imho)~

example (super armor): rushing in with while the BP bar is under 500 (unaware), this can make u lose track of the fact that u are losing health very easily since ivis isnt "showing that she is taking damage" she is only taking it~ (most ppl would say "just make sure u keep ur eye on ur HP" but when a battle gets heat'd or neck and neck, ur HP starts to become less of a priority whenur mostly worrying about dealing damage or keeping an eye on enemy attacks/positioning~)

(imho) flinching can honestly be a good thing, is keeps u alert of ur position/hp/BP in battle~ (it can keep u frozen in place if ur caught flinching too much, but that tends to only be an issue if u throw urself into a bad spot in the first place) in the end, ofc, itz best to flinch as little as possible~ but being able to flinch kinda snaps u into being alert much faster than relying on ur instincts/natural sense to check ur HP bar all the time~

example (installs): yeah, u can activate them right when u spawn, but in battle, every second counts, having to sit there to activate them can sometimes be the reason why a team (that could've won the match, even by a split hair) lost~ also, the veil does boost the weaponz range to wonderful amounts, but this is time limit'd~ having the veil run out in the middle of a self blitz rush or even right before u run into the next enemy is a bad thing~ (activating it again will cost ur team time/bp)

being ambush'd before activating anything is also a horrible situation to be in~ (activating anything right then and there will only lower ur chance to survive or win the fight and not activating it leaves u defenseless/not at peak fighting lvl)

the fact that ouka doesnt need to suffer through any installs is time efficient ~ (she may have weak str and a slower attack speed, but i guess this is CS's way of balancing her or else she would overpower any LND bot she faces~)

i think i forgot to mention something, but when i remember, i'll post it up~

Quote :

explain that part, nova? i dont understand it~

Ivis starts off with 3 Crimson Veil ammo. With an Internal Capacity upgrade cart, she can get 4 or even 5.

Quote :

(imho) flinching can honestly be a good thing, is keeps u alert of ur position/hp/BP in battle~

Not when you're taking 8 hits from an Ivis with 20 or above STR. Plus, Ouka only has around 300+ HP. Ivis can reach 400+ HP.

Quote :

example (installs): yeah, u can activate them right when u spawn, but in battle, every second counts, having to sit there to activate them can sometimes be the reason why a team (that could've won the match, even by a split hair) lost~

It's just 3 seconds of Ivis posing. Plus, she has high WLK so she'll have enough time to summon Sacrifice and make it for a dynamic entry.

Quote :

lso, the veil does boost the weaponz range to wonderful amounts, but this is time limit'd~ having the veil run out in the middle of a self blitz rush or even right before u run into the next enemy is a bad thing~

A time limit which is long enough for Ivis to take out at least 3 full HP'd mechs before either going down or running out. And it takes her half a second to turn Crimson Veil on again.

Quote :

example (super armor): rushing in with while the BP bar is under 500 (unaware), this can make u lose track of the fact that u are losing health very easily since ivis isnt "showing that she is taking damage" she is only taking it~ (most ppl would say "just make sure u keep ur eye on ur HP" but when a battle gets heat'd or neck and neck, ur HP starts to become less of a priority whenur mostly worrying about dealing damage or keeping an eye on enemy attacks/positioning~)

Ivis plays assassin style. Bushwhack enemy from behind. Watch enemy panic.

NovaZero wrote:

Ivis starts off with 3 Crimson Veil ammo. With an Internal Capacity upgrade cart, she can get 4 or even 5.

k~ thanks for letting me know, i probably didnt pay attention to that~

NovaZero wrote:

... Not when you're taking 8 hits from an Ivis with 20 or above STR. Plus, Ouka only has around 300+ HP. Ivis can reach 400+ HP....

thatz all highly situational~ ur talking about what an ivis and ouka can reach~ when it comes down to that~

-not all 8 hits might land~ (due to distance, height, enemy interruption, bad aim, ouka landing more hits, etc)

-the ivis might not be 20 or above STR or the ouka may have higher STR~ (due to modding or some other issue)

-HP is easily alterable due to items/terrain or simple modding~ (HP items, offensive items (fire pillar, etc), cactuses, bits, etc)

just as an ivis might have higher stats, the ouka may have higher stats, basing it on what may or may not be isnt really solid ground for debate~ (simply bcuz the results can be too easily changed, not determined~) That is the only fact that can be determined when it comes down to this~ (the fact that this isnt a 100% chance possibility, maybe 75% but not 100%) (i'm being generous with the 75%, when it should be 50%)

NovaZero wrote:

It's just 3 seconds of Ivis posing. Plus, she has high WLK so she'll have enough time to summon Sacrifice and make it for a dynamic entry.

you forgot to mention the respawn time, which easily turns a 3 second pose easily into a +10 second action (having the respawn minus item is only situational and isnt a permanent thing~ this is not something u can depend on in this event, bcuz events like this do not always appear. this is why i have not add'd it to this scenario)

having high WLK, doesnt guarantee that she will ALWAYS make it in time, an ally can be kill'd or the match can be decided in between the install or the search/race to the battle~

Terrain also plays into the time u have in getting to the battle in time. (climbing up or descending from elevation, treading water, position'd bits, etc.) things like this can add to the amount of time it takes to reach a fight.

(this is all true for an ouka also, however, not having to worry about an install/3 second pose, immediately removes 3 seconds from the timer, giving u 3 seconds more to spare) (be it battle or search/race to the battle)

NovaZero wrote:

A time limit which is long enough for Ivis to take out at least 3 full HP'd mechs before either going down or running out. And it takes her half a second to turn Crimson Veil on again....

once again, situational~

elevation, positioning, HP, enemy amount and other things can remove this possiblity~ (ARTs focus on range while AIR focus on height~)

Yes this is also true for an ouka, but ouka does not have to worry about using a ranged attack, they also have a distance attack. Ranged attacks require the user to somehow get (somewhat) near the opponent~ distance attacks does not really require that~ (the most u will simply need is a lock on)

Ranged attacks also pre-determine your positioning (and often animations) in terms of above/below/next to/in front of/behind~ (all around u) which means ur possibility for evasion/defense is horribly decreased~

distance attacks do not pre-determine ur position/animations (minus the shooting animations - as some distance attacks require u to stand still - ouka doesnt not meet such requirements however when it comes to her distance attack. so she is exempt from having a pre-determined shooting animation), the most u need to worry about is how far away ur enemy is, not how u are position'd against them, this give u more of an ability to evade/defend against on coming attacks~ (the flaw to this is that distance attacks tend to miss easier or can only be aim'd forward~)

(but if we are talking about simply Ivis VS ouka~ then only aiming forward isnt really an issue~)

Example: Ivis using the sacrifice (w/ pre-activated veil) vs Ouka. Ivis is now attacking and is stuck in attacking animations, leaving her self wide open for attacks. Ouka (using her distance attack) merely needs to maintain that distance and keep attacking Ivis (and find ways to defend herself or evade the attacks). while Ivis needs to get within range (even though she may have far range with the veil. A range is need'd. be it up/down/left/right/behind) or position in order to hit Ouka.

Also~ ranged attacks themselves have a cooldown period~

distance attacks do not~

(which is once again, just a matter of being able to not defend/evade or being able to~)

but ofc, i'm talking about Ivis (stock) VS Ouka (stock). (basically natural law rather than skill)

if it were any other matter, the battle is simply left to the user's battling skills (which is the case in 100% of all battles)
and other events taking place (enemy or ally jumping into the battle, items, terrain, etc)~


***EDIT*** (i just noticed the assassin thing)

Ivis is only an assassin, but not undetect'd~ (it can be seen with the human eye even if not on the radar~)

a successful attack from behind is only really good if the enemy poorly keeps an eye on their back~

(if i forgot something i'll add it later)

(and lol~ bushwack)

Eh I've spent all my time dealing with Ivis, so I've learned to deal with small land units. If anything I think Arty units would be more prepared for Ouka.

Loooooooooooooong posts.

In my opinion though, whoever doesn't get stunned will win. That is, Ivis with crimson veil. I mean, I've meleed with Ouka in the mission a few times, and got myself stunned atleast once or twice while trying beat it on hard, in close combat.

It's basically fighting a undead zombie in close combat - It is a natural thing to say a zombie does not feel pain of any sort and can not be stopped until you strike it back with something. Any who it's only a comparison, no matter how many times you try killing it with bare hands, it won't work, you'll end up getting yourself killed. (Of course unless Ivis already took damage from before making room for Ouka to strike back, but thats situational, we're only talking about one versus one, nothing more.) Plus, even if Ivis is damaged, she could probably At least damage Ouka enough for other robots to swipe in and kill, otherwise if you survive as her and get repair power ups or repair bits.

Hey I'm just stating my opinion, not opening debate or anything, its just how I see it. =x...

Again, I'm just only stating as how I would see it happen. >>

Please don't hurt me.~

wonder how this thread got turned into an ivis vs ouka thread...

I was just saying there would be another influx of melee small land mech

use more air bots and u dont have to deal with em so much XD

NovaZero wrote:

The art of the Samurai fueled by vengeance versus fencing fueled by dark lesbian rage.



THE WHEEL OF FATE IS TURNING

REBEL ONE, ACTION!


lol

Argh more strong LND bots... @_@ I need to learn how to use Air fast...X_X

In future updates will we get a strong ART bot?

AIR=Seraph Crimrose(Also Shaden??)
LND= Ivis and Ouka
ART=???

Lily needs Lily NEO pls...XP

i would place lily there under ur art xeno but tats just mah opinion i guess

Aye Lily is a great mech if ya know how to use her right. :3

But her lvl feels far from the mech that I've stated...

S-Crim and Shaden can both boost their ability to fly. Essential for an AIR unit.

Ouka and Ivis can dish out insane damage with just their core parts.

As for ART... none '-'