What sort of tuning...

Intet wrote:

LXE wrote:

You'd do better if you learn to not suicide rush melee. Trust me I've tried, I played MBG and I usually get something like 1500 score, then I learnt how to play Ouka, and I applied the non suicide rush concepts into my MBG play and I got around 2000-2700 each match I played right.

Generally you don't want to suicide rush with a L sized bot because of the huge hitbox which will burn out your HP very quickly despite the fact you have over 600.

Thanks to the fact a L sized bot makes an easy, highly visible target, melee l-lands should at least keep in mind that once they get within range of their desired target, they will have to deal with damage from multiple sources, and probably will not be returning to base alive. Is it possible? certainly, but if you go in and kill 5+ people and crumple the front-line then at least you give your teammates a moment of weakness to exploit.

Sometimes suicide is the best option, if you're trading your vangaurd/barron/ dea/what-have-you, for the other team's TBG, eve, rouche, etc then you've only made it easier to win for your team.

Adding in: this is one of the things that makes Hatigarm Machine so useful. A single hatemachine hopping and slicing back and forth through the entire team's frontline can potentially disrupt and distract the opposition as a whole, making it that much easier for your own team to attack.

Intet wrote:

LXE wrote:

You'd do better if you learn to not suicide rush melee. Trust me I've tried, I played MBG and I usually get something like 1500 score, then I learnt how to play Ouka, and I applied the non suicide rush concepts into my MBG play and I got around 2000-2700 each match I played right.

Generally you don't want to suicide rush with a L sized bot because of the huge hitbox which will burn out your HP very quickly despite the fact you have over 600.

Thanks to the fact a L sized bot makes an easy, highly visible target, melee l-lands should at least keep in mind that once they get within range of their desired target, they will have to deal with damage from multiple sources, and probably will not be returning to base alive. Is it possible? certainly, but if you go in and kill 5+ people and crumple the front-line then at least you give your teammates a moment of weakness to exploit.

Sometimes suicide is the best option, if you're trading your vangaurd/barron/ dea/what-have-you, for the other team's TBG, eve, rouche, etc then you've only made it easier to win for your team.

This is pretty true, and also what people seem to misunderstand OR overabuse to a point that they end up ruining it for their team (ngyuest anyone?). L melees are basically made to open holes in strong art defenses, chasing with them is probably one of the more retarded things you can do with them, and getting high wlk with them is equally pointless. 40str/40tgh and CV is the way to go, whatever can extend the amount of time those arts are too busy trying to avoid you (or, alternatively, getting pilebunkered for ~200 damage to the face) will decide whether or not you're doing it right, which, again, like suguri said, is exactly why hatigarm machine is fuckwin.

Suicide rush melee = No Challenge = Instant Gratification = Eventually gets boring

DO NOT WANT. Much moar fun to play tactical and non-suicidal.

But on the other hand if you get a whole group of of suicide rush melee players, and bash the hell out of every single opponent, then that will be fun.

I don't see any point in playing a game when you're not having fun.

LXE wrote:

Suicide rush melee = No Challenge = Instant Gratification = Eventually gets boring

DO NOT WANT. Much moar fun to play tactical and non-suicidal.

But on the other hand if you get a whole group of of suicide rush melee players, and bash the hell out of every single opponent, then that will be fun.

I don't see any point in playing a game when you're not having fun.

On the contrary, I like to play suicide with Cyclotes. It's not my preferred method of gameplay, which would be spearheading the direct first strike, but it's a rush like no other.
Nothing like rushing to your death while trying to take anything and anybody with you. Like piloting one of those giant chibis, tumbling to 80 damage per shot but taking shitloads of damage at the same time.

I've run the suicide build on Dirty Waterway without CVeil. It hasn't worked so well as of late, but I had quite some success with it before I put it away until CVeil. Got a couple of Sword Masters with it. It works best when the enemy front lines are specifically defined(like Green Field) or the enemy is concentrated into one or two points of combat.

@Kobrakai: I agree with this, to an extent. L melee is designed to crush and smash, creating openings for your team's smaller bots to push through. Their fundamental design naturally gives people more shit to shoot and if you're doing your job, you won't be returning alive. It usually is the best option if there's no other decent way for you to contribute to victory, and thus 40 TGH+CVeil and/or 40 STR is good. Chasing with a suicide melee is dumb and will likely lead to an early death. I don't agree with the mobility part though. If your aim is to crush as much of the enemy's front lines as you can before you die, getting to that front line as fast as you can is usually a good idea so the smashing can begin.

If it came down to 40 STR or mobility on a L melee, I would honestly take the mobility(leaving STR as high as possible, of course, as well as TGH). To mitigate the reduced damage, take a high-Force attack. Right now, I'm using Cyclotes AM(not the best choice, but you can't deny it has power backing it up) to rush and cripple the enemy's defenses before they can react. There's also the fact that people will shoot at the largest and closest target they can find. If you have S or M bots following your advance, you can essentially provide a fat meatshield and occupy defenders' attention while your smaller allies pick off targets. In addition, the two-pronged attack will confuse people so they'll shoot you less, trying to keep both the smaller bots and your fat ass back at the same time.

BAD melee is needed, but as support/contrib farmer *roll eyes* and maybe on outnumbered situation in thight space where CV-ed bot shines. BAD melee + bad girls (AG/fengmei) rushing your team make your alba can't concentrate to took her out, or take a risk got nice 200++ dmg in instant....

I did my first ever great rapid x high shooter tune. My LL blast zook looks beautiful :')

syllpher wrote:

I did my first ever great rapid x high shooter tune. My LL blast zook looks beautiful :')

[sacarsm]
my thoarla lgs/garula ams/pewpew lawnchair/all my rt stuff are looking great!

those crack filling up the slot realli makes it look epic.
[/sacarsm]

Rinrin wrote:

syllpher wrote:

I did my first ever great rapid x high shooter tune. My LL blast zook looks beautiful :')

[sacarsm]
my thoarla lgs/garula ams/pewpew lawnchair/all my rt stuff are looking great!

those crack filling up the slot realli makes it look epic.
[/sacarsm]

Is it necessary to brag about your accomplishments?
Same deal with the overdone sarcasm?

Anyway...
What to tune on the rest of my kawaii EVE-chan? I already have the cannon planned out, but not sure if I should take Boost Run and tune WLK, scrap that and tune FLY, or take Float Dash(yech) and tune FLY.

FireKiller87 wrote:

Rinrin wrote:

syllpher wrote:

I did my first ever great rapid x high shooter tune. My LL blast zook looks beautiful :')

[sacarsm]
my thoarla lgs/garula ams/pewpew lawnchair/all my rt stuff are looking great!

those crack filling up the slot realli makes it look epic.
[/sacarsm]

Is it necessary to brag about your accomplishments?
Same deal with the overdone sarcasm?

may I brag about my failed tunes, I got lots of them

FireKiller87 wrote:

@Kobrakai: I agree with this, to an extent. L melee is designed to crush and smash, creating openings for your team's smaller bots to push through. Their fundamental design naturally gives people more shit to shoot and if you're doing your job, you won't be returning alive. It usually is the best option if there's no other decent way for you to contribute to victory, and thus 40 TGH+CVeil and/or 40 STR is good. Chasing with a suicide melee is dumb and will likely lead to an early death. I don't agree with the mobility part though. If your aim is to crush as much of the enemy's front lines as you can before you die, getting to that front line as fast as you can is usually a good idea so the smashing can begin.

If it came down to 40 STR or mobility on a L melee, I would honestly take the mobility(leaving STR as high as possible, of course, as well as TGH). To mitigate the reduced damage, take a high-Force attack. Right now, I'm using Cyclotes AM(not the best choice, but you can't deny it has power backing it up) to rush and cripple the enemy's defenses before they can react. There's also the fact that people will shoot at the largest and closest target they can find. If you have S or M bots following your advance, you can essentially provide a fat meatshield and occupy defenders' attention while your smaller allies pick off targets. In addition, the two-pronged attack will confuse people so they'll shoot you less, trying to keep both the smaller bots and your fat ass back at the same time.

There are situations where WLK would be more appropriate, and that's with weapons that don't have long tracking distances, and where the bot itself has good defensive measures. Think the first two versions of scaregant, for example. The problem with getting high wlk is, while it does help get in the fray quicker, you end up sacrificing what could be extra tgh, which is what will allow you to get in there in the first place. On a well tuned bot though, this should by no means stop you from getting 25wlk, just be smart about your tunes and parts/cost ratio. On CV bots with something like 2 CV tunes however, high tgh isn't quite as big of a deal, because the second that CV triggers there's no stopping you.

Kobrakai wrote:

FireKiller87 wrote:

@Kobrakai: I agree with this, to an extent. L melee is designed to crush and smash, creating openings for your team's smaller bots to push through. Their fundamental design naturally gives people more shit to shoot and if you're doing your job, you won't be returning alive. It usually is the best option if there's no other decent way for you to contribute to victory, and thus 40 TGH+CVeil and/or 40 STR is good. Chasing with a suicide melee is dumb and will likely lead to an early death. I don't agree with the mobility part though. If your aim is to crush as much of the enemy's front lines as you can before you die, getting to that front line as fast as you can is usually a good idea so the smashing can begin.

If it came down to 40 STR or mobility on a L melee, I would honestly take the mobility(leaving STR as high as possible, of course, as well as TGH). To mitigate the reduced damage, take a high-Force attack. Right now, I'm using Cyclotes AM(not the best choice, but you can't deny it has power backing it up) to rush and cripple the enemy's defenses before they can react. There's also the fact that people will shoot at the largest and closest target they can find. If you have S or M bots following your advance, you can essentially provide a fat meatshield and occupy defenders' attention while your smaller allies pick off targets. In addition, the two-pronged attack will confuse people so they'll shoot you less, trying to keep both the smaller bots and your fat ass back at the same time.

There are situations where WLK would be more appropriate, and that's with weapons that don't have long tracking distances, and where the bot itself has good defensive measures. Think the first two versions of scaregant, for example. The problem with getting high wlk is, while it does help get in the fray quicker, you end up sacrificing what could be extra tgh, which is what will allow you to get in there in the first place. On a well tuned bot though, this should by no means stop you from getting 25wlk, just be smart about your tunes and parts/cost ratio. On CV bots with something like 2 CV tunes however, high tgh isn't quite as big of a deal, because the second that CV triggers there's no stopping you.

An interesting conundrum. 25 WLK is definitely a must, however if you're using Boost Run as your primary form of movement it limits you to green tier speed. On my planned Cyclotes build, I have 25 STR 21 TGH and 36/5 Boost Run with 1 CVeil tune, which is probably a little excessive on the mobility part. Cutting to 36/1 is safe(drops me one speed tier, but I can deal with that) and gives me an additional 12 TGH which gives me a total of 33...good? I'm not as familiar with the TGH breakpoints as with FLY...
It really comes down to three choices, since both TGH and WLK tuning sacrifices FLY stats:
1)Balance WLK and TGH
2)Tank one for the other
3)Scrap the whole idea and tune with basic tunes, which is unrealistic unless you have 3s EVERYTHING...including cheap WP and stats AC with your 1 slot put to the most efficient use, plus truckloads of RT for harmonics and protectors

2 CV nullifies the need for excess TGH, but that's 100 cost you're pulling there. As most L melee bots usually have naturally high TGH(not to mention TGH potentially added by good parts), I honestly don't think it's necessary to get 2 CV tunes.
Also, coming at the front lines from a potential ambush avenue(like that stage with the side routes going behind the PS, dont remember the name) helps mitigate a lower TGH stat. Those are kind of few and far in between, though.

3 crimson veil tunes are 90 cost, 2 are 60 .... not 100 >.> they also give 10 hp each and in combination with stunregain will give more health in one botlife
the value granted is based on luck, incomming damage and toughness+maximum health

on bots without stunregain crimson veil loses much of its value, so i propably wouldnt even consider more than 1 crimson tune there

Aurum_Sol wrote:

3 crimson veil tunes are 90 cost, 2 are 60 .... not 100 >.> they also give 10 hp each and in combination with stunregain will give more health in one botlife
the value granted is based on luck, incomming damage and toughness+maximum health

on bots without stunregain crimson veil loses much of its value, so i propably wouldnt even consider more than 1 crimson tune there

What, I thought a single CVeil tune was 50 cost?
...Derp.

FireKiller87 wrote:

Kobrakai wrote:

FireKiller87 wrote:

@Kobrakai: I agree with this, to an extent. L melee is designed to crush and smash, creating openings for your team's smaller bots to push through. Their fundamental design naturally gives people more shit to shoot and if you're doing your job, you won't be returning alive. It usually is the best option if there's no other decent way for you to contribute to victory, and thus 40 TGH+CVeil and/or 40 STR is good. Chasing with a suicide melee is dumb and will likely lead to an early death. I don't agree with the mobility part though. If your aim is to crush as much of the enemy's front lines as you can before you die, getting to that front line as fast as you can is usually a good idea so the smashing can begin.

If it came down to 40 STR or mobility on a L melee, I would honestly take the mobility(leaving STR as high as possible, of course, as well as TGH). To mitigate the reduced damage, take a high-Force attack. Right now, I'm using Cyclotes AM(not the best choice, but you can't deny it has power backing it up) to rush and cripple the enemy's defenses before they can react. There's also the fact that people will shoot at the largest and closest target they can find. If you have S or M bots following your advance, you can essentially provide a fat meatshield and occupy defenders' attention while your smaller allies pick off targets. In addition, the two-pronged attack will confuse people so they'll shoot you less, trying to keep both the smaller bots and your fat ass back at the same time.

There are situations where WLK would be more appropriate, and that's with weapons that don't have long tracking distances, and where the bot itself has good defensive measures. Think the first two versions of scaregant, for example. The problem with getting high wlk is, while it does help get in the fray quicker, you end up sacrificing what could be extra tgh, which is what will allow you to get in there in the first place. On a well tuned bot though, this should by no means stop you from getting 25wlk, just be smart about your tunes and parts/cost ratio. On CV bots with something like 2 CV tunes however, high tgh isn't quite as big of a deal, because the second that CV triggers there's no stopping you.

An interesting conundrum. 25 WLK is definitely a must, however if you're using Boost Run as your primary form of movement it limits you to green tier speed. On my planned Cyclotes build, I have 25 STR 21 TGH and 36/5 Boost Run with 1 CVeil tune, which is probably a little excessive on the mobility part. Cutting to 36/1 is safe(drops me one speed tier, but I can deal with that) and gives me an additional 12 TGH which gives me a total of 33...good? I'm not as familiar with the TGH breakpoints as with FLY...
It really comes down to three choices, since both TGH and WLK tuning sacrifices FLY stats:
1)Balance WLK and TGH
2)Tank one for the other
3)Scrap the whole idea and tune with basic tunes, which is unrealistic unless you have 3s EVERYTHING...including cheap WP and stats AC with your 1 slot put to the most efficient use, plus truckloads of RT for harmonics and protectors

2 CV nullifies the need for excess TGH, but that's 100 cost you're pulling there. As most L melee bots usually have naturally high TGH(not to mention TGH potentially added by good parts), I honestly don't think it's necessary to get 2 CV tunes.
Also, coming at the front lines from a potential ambush avenue(like that stage with the side routes going behind the PS, dont remember the name) helps mitigate a lower TGH stat. Those are kind of few and far in between, though.

D'oh, forgot to add. I don't use boost run on any of my bots so I meant no boostrun

In the end, it's all up to preference, and how much you can fit on the BD. I find that geo G is probably one of the better rushing BDs as it has alot of spare cost, and with the right tunes and gear, can accomplish 40str, 32wlk, and 32tgh while staying at 1350 or under on cost, possibly more? Just don't expect to have a WB at all.

EDIT: Threw together a quick example build, level 8 geo G w/ bunker AMs

Spoiler:

Also, this might help a bit with the TGH breakpoints.
http://www.cosmicbreak.com/commu/?m=pc&a=page_fh_diary&target_c_diary_id=1914

Nymph~ wrote:

FireKiller87 wrote:

Rinrin wrote:

[sacarsm]
my thoarla lgs/garula ams/pewpew lawnchair/all my rt stuff are looking great!

those crack filling up the slot realli makes it look epic.
[/sacarsm]

Is it necessary to brag about your accomplishments?
Same deal with the overdone sarcasm?

may I brag about my failed tunes, I got lots of them

@firekiller: of cuz
@nymph: thats wat i did :3

Rinrin wrote:

Nymph~ wrote:

FireKiller87 wrote:

Is it necessary to brag about your accomplishments?
Same deal with the overdone sarcasm?

may I brag about my failed tunes, I got lots of them

@firekiller: of cuz
@nymph: thats wat i did :3

I wasn't bragging, was happy that I got a weapon that actually has is not BROKEN in any way, and wants reviews on it :<