Ivis vs. Other Melee Bots

Just wondering what you guys think of CVeil (as opposed as it being the "omnipotent" thing in the melee bot world). 40 TGH bots are nearly unstunnable, Ouka herself as a stunlock combo, and Elisa has shock if she uses lightning edge I'd include BB here too, but I saw he had like 10 TGH...so like...that's >.>

Personally I'd like to think a JHam/BC build would still beat the living crud outta Ivis, but I wonder if anyone has melee-ed a good Ivis player while CVeiled (without running around to get her to waste the timer for it) to death. Most likely the only bot who could do that would be 40 TGH bots.


The only reason why I wonder this is because I know Ah-Chans, Crim and EVE can eat Ivis np, but what about the rest of the LND crew that are currently out? o.O Since people are not raging about Ivis OP, are they all capable of eating her or something? o.O

Slow tuned rapier

Revenge tune version of CVeil is superior because:

1. Any bot can use it, of course.
2. Revenge tune version also gives all-guard in addition to veil; Ivis buff does not
3. CVeil + Stun Regain = haxx HP regen. Ivis does not have stun regain.

Did not know revenge CVeil gave All Guard o.o That's awesome.

Would Cveil cause all damage causing things to proc Stun Regain? o.o?

Pros

1: Sacrifice is a guaranteed or at least very high stunrate weapon
2: 8-hit stunlock combo
3: fully upgraded, she can have 7:30 of Cveil

Cons

1: Entirely CV reliant, her range is derpier than a cutter when not buffed
2: Lol that TGH, she won't get stunned but damage taken will not get cut down like a 40 TGH Dae
3: Sacrifice gives a CV Dae well, CV
4: Even worse tuning potential than Elisa
5: Free frag for anything with spacebar

ngelicdark wrote:

Would Cveil cause all damage causing things to proc Stun Regain? o.o?

It doesn't, but it removes the cooldown on Stun Regain, so it can activate rapidly when it shouldn't normally be able to.

Suguri wrote:

ngelicdark wrote:

Would Cveil cause all damage causing things to proc Stun Regain? o.o?

It doesn't, but it removes the cooldown on Stun Regain, so it can activate rapidly when it shouldn't normally be able to.

This has me confus. Can someone explain the mechanics of stun regain to me? All I know is that it restores 40-70% of the stunning hit, then I saw the one where a berrl was healing a Dae by shooting it with stun.

And how 40 TGH bots can abuse stun regain better than a low-TGH bot.

knyx wrote:

Suguri wrote:

ngelicdark wrote:

Would Cveil cause all damage causing things to proc Stun Regain? o.o?

It doesn't, but it removes the cooldown on Stun Regain, so it can activate rapidly when it shouldn't normally be able to.

This has me confus. Can someone explain the mechanics of stun regain to me? All I know is that it restores 40-70% of the stunning hit, then I saw the one where a berrl was healing a Dae by shooting it with stun.

And how 40 TGH bots can abuse stun regain better than a low-TGH bot.

From what I gather, TGH can also affect how much damage you take. 40 TGH can abuse Stun Regain better than a low TGH bot because the damage is so small that Stun Regain actually heals over it.

So the 40-70% is from the original, unmodded damage, not the TGH-reduced damage?

And about how long is the CV buff on a non-Ivis bot from revenge tunes?

That, I don't know.

Didn't even know Stun Regain could kick in in CV.

feelin we alreadh have this discussion from BETA EN ...

and the result (the Melle Only) :
Bugsy Shock Tonfa or Shock Shield > Ivis
Shock Knife or Shock Sword > Ivis
Jet Hammer > Ivis

Winberrl > Ivis.

well... actually there's alot way to counter crimson veil...

just... be creative...

NovaZero wrote:

That, I don't know.

Didn't even know Stun Regain could kick in in CV.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't. Stun Regain only activates when you are stunned, and since CVeil prevents all stunning, Stun Regain is useless on a bot with CVeil.

Low TGH bots actually benefit MORE from Stun Regain than High TGH bots. Since High TGH lowers the chance of stun, you won't be stunned as much-->you don't activate Stun Regain as much, but you take less continuous damage due to high TGH damage reduc. Low TGH-->higher chance of stun(within reason plz, no 0 TGH or you'll die regardless)-->more Stun Regain activations, but you take more damage from continuous fire. So it should balance out.

Also, Ivis's Sacrifice has the advantage when it comes to combo time. Eight strikes is a long combo, meaning a lot of chances for Slow tunes to take effect(and a lot of damage too, if all eight strikes connect with the target). The biggest disadvantage is not Ivis herself, but her players. A lot of people might assume they can do w/e the hell they want since she can't be stunned for a period of time, and just go bumrush PS or whatnot. Ivis is vulnerable to massive damage, so fatass Artillery groups at the PS should be able to destroy her relatively quickly.
Most players also don't run ranged weaponry on Ivis, preferring to run her TEC into the dirt. Use standard Vanguard tactics vs. Ivis and you should be fine, except Airs are not the quickest way to kill Ivis(no, not even Crim, who'll make Ivis jelly-kneed with love) unless they're in large numbers. Instead, I'd have a group of ARTs with very heavy firepower and battle-hardened skill attack an enemy Ivis. Even though the barrage of artillery won't stun Ivis, she'll go down quickly because she's still weak to massive damage. Inflict lethal damage to Ivis before she reaches the group and you should have no problems. If not, have the ART group scatter in different directions(this tactic requires each fat ART to have decent mobility, at least 6-7 in one mobility stat and 4-6 in the other, and more is always better) and have them fire individually on Ivis, inflicting more damage on her critically injured body while keeping her Sacrifice out of reach(hopefully avoiding a fatal Sacrifice combo attack). Within three minutes of first contact and engaging of the enemy Ivis, she should be dead with few to no casualties on your side.

the Stun rate that got lower isn't that much, TGH benefit about reduce con.....damage (i forgot the name)
i'm not sure but i think i have seen this once, L land bot got gang up by Machine gun and rapid fire weapons but his HP keep going up not down.

FireKiller87 wrote:

I'm pretty sure it doesn't. Stun Regain only activates when you are stunned, and since CVeil prevents all stunning, Stun Regain is useless on a bot with CVeil

Or it could cause Stun Regain to heal even more.

Suguri wrote:

FireKiller87 wrote:

I'm pretty sure it doesn't. Stun Regain only activates when you are stunned, and since CVeil prevents all stunning, Stun Regain is useless on a bot with CVeil

Or it could cause Stun Regain to heal even more.

Is this why my beam machine guns only hit 1 or 2 or even seem to miss when I absolutely hit?

FireKiller87 wrote:

NovaZero wrote:

That, I don't know.

Didn't even know Stun Regain could kick in in CV.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't. Stun Regain only activates when you are stunned, and since CVeil prevents all stunning, Stun Regain is useless on a bot with CVeil.

Low TGH bots actually benefit MORE from Stun Regain than High TGH bots. Since High TGH lowers the chance of stun, you won't be stunned as much-->you don't activate Stun Regain as much, but you take less continuous damage due to high TGH damage reduc. Low TGH-->higher chance of stun(within reason plz, no 0 TGH or you'll die regardless)-->more Stun Regain activations, but you take more damage from continuous fire. So it should balance out.

I doubt you've seen the video of a 40 TGH dae getting healed by a berrl then. Note that stunning is a probability thing and it doesn't decrease that much even at tier 6 (40) TGH. What does go up really high is the damage reduction. And unless Suguri or someone corrects me stun regain applies to the unmodified raw damage that hasn't been TGH reduced yet. Revenge CV lasts a really short amount of time, but it resets the stun regain cooldown which allows you to heal more.

EDIT: 2 posts above me, there's your video.

Actually, the best method to dealing with an Ivis (and this is a beta tried and proven tactic, when Ivises ruled melee):

Take an air tag team. Equip ABRs or some other long-range high damage weapon.
-while circling her and keeping her within your teammates' range, fire the beams down on her.
Take a Jethammer. Push the bot to 40 STR 40TGH and 30WLK. Proceed to hammer ivis into jelly. Repeat.
Take a small team of ARTs. Have them equip strong, shell-based weapons (breaker, rifle, Maxis' railgun etc.)
-under a PS, stagger a volley-fire into an ivis. Instant doom.

piroton wrote:

Actually, the best method to dealing with an Ivis (and this is a beta tried and proven tactic, when Ivises ruled melee):

Take an air tag team. Equip ABRs or some other long-range high damage weapon.
-while circling her and keeping her within your teammates' range, fire the beams down on her.
Take a Jethammer. Push the bot to 40 STR 40TGH and 30WLK. Proceed to hammer ivis into jelly. Repeat.
Take a small team of ARTs. Have them equip strong, shell-based weapons (breaker, rifle, Maxis' railgun etc.)
-under a PS, stagger a volley-fire into an ivis. Instant doom.

Use stun regain and CV tune his legs so Ivis heals him instead.

knyx wrote:

piroton wrote:

Actually, the best method to dealing with an Ivis (and this is a beta tried and proven tactic, when Ivises ruled melee):

Take an air tag team. Equip ABRs or some other long-range high damage weapon.
-while circling her and keeping her within your teammates' range, fire the beams down on her.
Take a Jethammer. Push the bot to 40 STR 40TGH and 30WLK. Proceed to hammer ivis into jelly. Repeat.
Take a small team of ARTs. Have them equip strong, shell-based weapons (breaker, rifle, Maxis' railgun etc.)
-under a PS, stagger a volley-fire into an ivis. Instant doom.

Use stun regain and CV tune his legs so Ivis heals him instead.

But why do that when you can simply hammer Ivis into jelly? stun regain works, sure, but the point is to smack Ivis before she can even reach you. Jham sends her backwards. repeat it again when she approaches.

why is ivis a problem for you OP? I got ivis and it gets pwned almost evry time. Even my vandguard can do more than her could. If anything, the new baron is more of a thread to you since all fire attacks will just make it stronger.

farith wrote:

why is ivis a problem for you OP? I got ivis and it gets pwned almost evry time. Even my vandguard can do more than her could. If anything, the new baron is more of a thread to you since all fire attacks will just make it stronger.

CV and hit Vanguard twice.
Vanguards will cry, dispite having sword guards.

Any tune you put on Ivis wither STR or slow,
Ivis is still a rageworthy bot to deal with on a 1vs1 bases.
And like VF, she can eat more than one person at a time with CV on.

no CV and she's pretty harmless.

B2Seeker wrote:

farith wrote:

why is ivis a problem for you OP? I got ivis and it gets pwned almost evry time. Even my vandguard can do more than her could. If anything, the new baron is more of a thread to you since all fire attacks will just make it stronger.

CV and hit Vanguard twice.
Vanguards will cry, dispite having sword guards.

Any tune you put on Ivis wither STR or slow,
Ivis is still a rageworthy bot to deal with on a 1vs1 bases.
And like VF, she can eat more than one person at a time with CV on.

no CV and she's pretty harmless.

No CV her range is worse than a cutter.

Though against a CV-tuned revenge VF she will cry for giving him a free CV and all guard.

knyx wrote:

B2Seeker wrote:

farith wrote:

why is ivis a problem for you OP? I got ivis and it gets pwned almost evry time. Even my vandguard can do more than her could. If anything, the new baron is more of a thread to you since all fire attacks will just make it stronger.

CV and hit Vanguard twice.
Vanguards will cry, dispite having sword guards.

Any tune you put on Ivis wither STR or slow,
Ivis is still a rageworthy bot to deal with on a 1vs1 bases.
And like VF, she can eat more than one person at a time with CV on.

no CV and she's pretty harmless.

No CV her range is worse than a cutter.

Though against a CV-tuned revenge VF she will cry for giving him a free CV and all guard.

at least with the crimson veil cirlce from ivis chan the overdrive buff is dispelled, is that not the case for revenge crimson veil ?