Revenge Shot

cartridge cost: 15
effect: chance ot not use ammo while below 50 HP
chance: ~ 75%

notes: does not work @ 0ammo, 1 bullet is required, works with subweapons and mainweapons

i used this on a pacifar(gets it pre-6) I was using to run that one vacation mission years ago for...something? It made it easier since the main problem I had back then was running out of ammo shooting all the shits with untuned weapons.
I've never used it in arena, imo it doesn't seem worth it unless the threshold was doubled(or even tripled). 50HP, especially with the current power-level of things, just doesn't seem worth it.
Additionally it's(usually) a level 9 cartridge and the other high level cartridges seem more useful.
I dunno, seems superniche as far as arena use goes, I can't easily think of something that could make use of this while actually being good.

While bullet preservation is swell, the problem is creating a build that can safely capitalize on this.


Would have been great if Rinka got said cart.

Maybe Victory1 with ballistic launcher or scram launcher or linear cannon and 1 str to abuse long range bit could work.

Furthermore, before you can use said cart, you have to either take enough damage from enemy team to render yourself valid for the cart or damage yourself to such a point.

cartridge cost: 40
effect: regain 5% HP when killing an enemy


notes: is shit just like revenge shot

UncleBobbie wrote:

cartridge cost: 40
effect: regain 5% HP when killing an enemy


notes: is shit just like revenge shot

Actually that's not entirely accurate; you heal 5% of the enemy's max HP when you kill them.

Which is why this thread exists.

To inform people of the exact effects of a cart that nobody's bothered definitively looking into.

Quote :

I've never used it in arena, imo it doesn't seem worth it unless the threshold was doubled(or even tripled). 50HP, especially with the current power-level of things, just doesn't seem worth it.

i suggested this yesterday in a quick discussion, too - 150 hp and 50% chance would be much better

do we have any means to get the JPs to discuss about the cart?

UncleBobbie wrote:

cartridge cost: 40
effect: regain 5% HP when killing an enemy


notes: is shit just like revenge shot

40 cost for 30hp whenever you kill one of those 600hp melee land builds. Unreliable since if you don't get the kill, you get nothing. Seems even worse than revenge shot. This could be adjusted to be 5hp for every 100 damage and would be useful on crowd-diving builds, but remain rather niche.

Wouldn't Soul Eater be marginally useful on those suiciding LND bots like Ivis?

NovaZero wrote:

Wouldn't Soul Eater be marginally useful on those suiciding LND bots like Ivis?

Yes, but some don't justify the risk/reward of this cart. Basically, you NEED to kill people and not get kill stolen.

how much no-ammo shots does revenge shot gives you? I mean if you got 75% of no-ammo shot, if you're using a ballistic weapon, that would be nice, but if you're some kind of machinegun weapon, I don't think that will help much (if it helps at all.........)

StardustAR wrote:

how much no-ammo shots does revenge shot gives you? I mean if you got 75% of no-ammo shot, if you're using a ballistic weapon, that would be nice, but if you're some kind of machinegun weapon, I don't think that will help much (if it helps at all.........)

I don't get the question.

You need at least 1 ammo to satisfy the condition of not using up ammo according to the cart (which is not including the other, bothersome condition).

When both conditions are met, you have roughly 75% chance to conserve ammo by not using it up.

If you have no ammo, there is no ammo for you to conserve, so the cart does not come to effect. This applies to all types of weaponry, from main to sub.

If anything, it'd be a better choice on things like gatlings compared to slower firing weapons. Like slow tunes help melees with higher hitcounts, higher ammo pools/rates of fire would technically be able to abuse it better.

Relict? wrote:

StardustAR wrote:

how much no-ammo shots does revenge shot gives you? I mean if you got 75% of no-ammo shot, if you're using a ballistic weapon, that would be nice, but if you're some kind of machinegun weapon, I don't think that will help much (if it helps at all.........)

I don't get the question.

You need at least 1 ammo to satisfy the condition of not using up ammo according to the cart (which is not including the other, bothersome condition).

When both conditions are met, you have roughly 75% chance to conserve ammo by not using it up.

If you have no ammo, there is no ammo for you to conserve, so the cart does not come to effect. This applies to all types of weaponry, from main to sub.

then let me rephrase it, how many free ammo does the 75% gives? only one? ten? basically I'm kinda like asking does it work with rapid fire or not

StardustAR wrote:

Relict? wrote:

StardustAR wrote:

how much no-ammo shots does revenge shot gives you? I mean if you got 75% of no-ammo shot, if you're using a ballistic weapon, that would be nice, but if you're some kind of machinegun weapon, I don't think that will help much (if it helps at all.........)

I don't get the question.

You need at least 1 ammo to satisfy the condition of not using up ammo according to the cart (which is not including the other, bothersome condition).

When both conditions are met, you have roughly 75% chance to conserve ammo by not using it up.

If you have no ammo, there is no ammo for you to conserve, so the cart does not come to effect. This applies to all types of weaponry, from main to sub.

then let me rephrase it, how many free ammo does the 75% gives? only one? ten? basically I'm kinda like asking does it work with rapid fire or not

Oh, I see.

Well, then, Trill covered that. But in short, yes.

A compact gatling has 700 ammo. If you were to fire the whole thing at sub-50 HP with Revenge Shot triggering exactly 75% of the time, then you only consume one bullet for every 4 that you shoot out. So after firing out 700 ammo, you'd still have 525 ammo left. Once again using one bullet for each 4 shot, you'd then have 393 after firing 525 shots, then 295 after firing another 393, and so on and so forth. For most rounds you have over 200 bullets that you've never consumed while firing. You easily end up firing over 2000 shots over the course of the gun's life time, and because it's a high rate-of-fire gatling, you can actually fire all of those bullets.

Antlion AM2 has 20 ammo. In the same exercise, all 20 shots leaves you with 15 left, then with 11, then 8, and such. Each bullet on Antlion AM2 is totally worth it if you get more, but you don't fire that often with the weapon to begin with (and a 75% chance isn't a ticket to go all out), so you don't get extra ammo as often. Likewise, even though effective longevity bonus to the weapon is the same, since it is multiplicative, the actual amount of extra shots is far fewer.

The above naturally assumed direct case scenarios, ignores the fact that you probably spent a good portio of ammo before hitting 50 HP, and also ignored the problems of trying to fire thousands of bullets with less than 50 HP left. In practice, the point is more about "Having enough ammo left to continue saving ammo". So a gatling excellent works because it has a large amount of ammo to fall back on when it does lose ammo, which means more ammo to not spend at any time. You're also more likely to have enough ammo to actually run Revenge Shot by the time it triggers. Each shot of a huge cannon that doesn't consume ammo is one more you can fire, but you will still run out far sooner, and by the time Revenge Shot can trigger, you may only get 3 or fewer extra shots.

I would say that one of the best candidates that is able to use the Revenge Shot cart is Quadra Rondo because he is an M Sized support bot who can take advantage of the Revenge Shot by equipping items like Mediger AM2 for healing support.

Revenge Shot is really risky considering you need to put yourself at such a low HP similar to that of 3heart runs of LoZ and such, so equipping high ranged weapons like Railguns or equipping support type items like Mediger AM2 can allow you to take advantage of the cart before blowing up into little chunks.

Spoiler:

Pls have enough firepower to instant gib birdz before they gib me.

Quote :

how much no-ammo shots does revenge shot gives you? I mean if you got 75% of no-ammo shot, if you're using a ballistic weapon, that would be nice, but if you're some kind of machinegun weapon, I don't think that will help much (if it helps at all.........)

i did the test mainly with middle gattling armjoints, we to try to test if it works with 0 ammo i had to empty it first, took a good 7 to 8 minutes constant firing to empty its 450 ammo on 140 int 10 shot clips without windup time.

Now just make sure ou don't hop through an Arrow Rain or something :<