LoL... Because why not?

league is notorious for being the same thing over the years for a reason.

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Basically in Riot's eyes Zyra is a support, not a mid.

this is a problem
this is in fact THE problem
this is in fact my entire point.

let me say it again because you always, always ignore it.

designing a character to be played in one way is retarded.

you design a character to work in the game
you allow the players to decide what to do with it.

the players used zyra as a mid, riot nerfed it for balance reasons.
that's fine.
Now she's a support.
no see that's not fine.
"now she is used primarily in a supporting role"
this is a perfectly fine statement.
this is saying the players would prefer to use this kit in this role because of meta reasons etc.
"riot sees zyra as a support"
this is retarded because it's the designers controlling what the players are allowed to do artificially.

Here I'm going to be a dick.
Naga Siren was, for a long time, an extremely hard late-game carry. She had nearly unstoppable farming because of her ult and strong scaling with illusions and armor shredding.
Last time I looked at the dota2 metagame(which I admit was awhile ago), people used her as a support. To throw nets at people and shred their armor and use the ult to initiate and shit.
yeah people took a carry based on auto-attacking things to death and put her into a support role.
See, nobody would ever fucking say some shit like "valve sees naga siren as a support" because they fucking don't.
They allow the players to do whatever the fuck they want.
Character not useful in one role? Ok let's put them in a different role.
This is the players doing it, not the company.

You make statements about riot wants this for x character, riot doesn't want this for y character.
that's my entire fucking point.
riot is too controlling of shit.
Even if they change their minds and make a character be something other than they originally intended for it to be, it's still riot being fucking stupid because they are saying "use this to do this." and being controlling rather than letting a game evolve on it's own.
riot is a stifling parent who wants to control every aspect of their kid's life.
fuck riot

you wanna talk shit about cyberstep go ahead.
I hate league of legends as a game. I hate CB as a game. I hate riot as a company. I hate CS as a company.
You want to say "x bot is shit" when it isn't, I will tell you you are wrong.
I never said anything of the sort here.
I made comments about riot's balancing decisions.
you are defending riot.
All I do is say "hey that's not bad you just have to do X."
try to understand the difference here.
If I was saying "lulu mid is shit" you could say "hey no it isn't."
I didn't say that. I said "riot nerfed the supports that people were putting in solo lanes" which is completely true - it's something riot did do. You may say "hey it was broken." but that's not the point I'm trying to make.

dota grew organically over years under multiple developers with different styles and different ideas of where it should go. It resulted in a very unbalanced game.
There's nothing similar to CB in dota's power creep.
They made a lot of the extremely outdated, useless characters usable. That's the only power creep. You look at the patch notes and you don't see stupid as fuck bi-weekly tinkering with things that get reverted a month later, or repeated chain nerfs because riot doesn't know how to fucking nerf something properly. The current team knows what they are doing and actually does it right.
Dota2 doesn't produce new retarded characters every two months that completely upset the balance. They slowly and methodically port over characters and do so in ways that won't upset things too badly. There was a time when anti-mage was horribly overpowered. They made some adjustments to his BAT, and added in the characters that were designed to keep him in check. And he wasn't a hugely dominant force anymore.

Coolest thing about dota2 is that a hero draft actually means something. You ban in response to what the other team is actively doing, rather than just banning froggen's anivia every game(or whatever the fuck the modern equivalent of that is.)
This is probably because there are multiple strategies viable in dota because the company running the game doesn't try to force characters into single roles based on a stupid fucking meta.

Yes, the players came up with the meta. But then riot goes and cements it and makes it stuck like that. That's a problem. league doesn't have a "small number of viable characters" It has a small number of viable characters that changes every fucking month because riot has to nerf the old set and make room for the new set. Obviously this is an exaggeration but I'm pretty sure that back in S2 or whenever you could pick Graves, Ezreal, or Corki for ADC, and now in pre4 you can pick Sivir, Jinx, or Lucian. Or did they actually nerf lucian properly this time? Fuck if I know. Point still stands that riot just cycles the currently usable nerds. I don't see how you can say a game is in a good spot when 2/3rds of the cast is unusable and the company in charge constantly changes which 1/3rd is playable and calls it "balancing".

Quote :

On a side note, you said your example for your point was the dignitas team comp, but lulu was nerfed for a completely different reason and had nothing to do with your point so...

i never mentioned lulu by name. I mentioned that after dignitas did that in a tournament, MULTIPLE supports had their solo-lane abilities nerfed. And that is STILL completely true.

Riot should see what 5 junglers with smite can do vs a "traditional" team comp.

instagib annie's bear

Winty wrote:

Yes, the players came up with the meta. But then riot goes and cements it and makes it stuck like that. That's a problem. league doesn't have a "small number of viable characters" It has a small number of viable characters that changes every fucking month because riot has to nerf the old set and make room for the new set. Obviously this is an exaggeration but I'm pretty sure that back in S2 or whenever you could pick Graves, Ezreal, or Corki for ADC, and now in pre4 you can pick Sivir, Jinx, or Lucian. Or did they actually nerf lucian properly this time? Fuck if I know. Point still stands that riot just cycles the currently usable nerds. I don't see how you can say a game is in a good spot when 2/3rds of the cast is unusable and the company in charge constantly changes which 1/3rd is playable and calls it "balancing".

Corki and Ez were top ADC threats during S3. Sivir was revamped, Jinx was massively advertised and is quite op (try jungling with her), and Lucian was underestimated in S3 (he arrived mid/late S3). Imo, the only reason he's used more is because "x player used this and owned, so I will use that too" mentallity (not that no one isn't guilty of that). Your point still stands though. I don't want to make a comparisson to cb, but I personally would prefer a metagame where everything is relatively op rather than a metagame where only a small part is usuable; as the latter centralizes the game to much (which makes me think of the point you make about the players making the metagame).

I think that Riot failed to understand why people used mages as supports. Like when they initially nerfed sona, and how they nerfed midlane Soraka. It's not simply because they are stronger, it's because being a support is the most ungratifying role. Supports are the ones making the plays, and a team with a support is usually better than one that doesn't. The way riot "balanced" supports, ruined the role in the sense where one quickly became a deadweight. Playing Annie support however, doesn't have that problem. Your kit has offensive power, and people won't like your ult and your stun. When I played sup in S3, I'd always pick mages or a sup with a tank or AP rune page.

why can't supports be good
like EARTHSHAKER

>It's not simply because they are stronger, it's because being a support is the most ungratifying role.

or perhaps it's because riot's fucked up pants on head retarded idea of a support is "U HEAL LOT K"

dota has better supports and people actually enjoy playing them.

>Corki and Ez were top ADC threats during S3.

i am so very fucking confident corki was top tier for like two seasons because making a game evolve is way too goddamn hard for some of these idiots

People were dumb and just forgot about Corki.

Same shit goes with Gragas.



Started playing casually in mid S3 (to play with a friend but she doesn't play anymore so what's the point) and they didn't seem to be hyped until after wõrld cup.

Relict? wrote:

Started playing casually in mid S3 (to play with a friend but she doesn't play anymore so what's the point) and they didn't seem to be hyped until after wõrld cup.

That's because every unconventional build tried in wc will be widespread after the wc.

So.. who likes ARAM?

I really should go play now orso since I got nothing better to do. Or find a movie to watch.

Every ADC is strong, champs with retarded close gaps and disengage mechanics like Kassadin, Lee Sin, Fizz and Ahri is what is killing them unless your support player knows how to pick and counterplay.

Just play Janna and your ADC is fine. I still think she's the best at keeping shit off the ADC.

Relict? wrote:

People were dumb and just forgot about Corki.

Same shit goes with Gragas.



Started playing casually in mid S3 (to play with a friend but she doesn't play anymore so what's the point) and they didn't seem to be hyped until after wõrld cup.

This is because Triforce got a pretty big buff and corki became unstoppable again as its his core item. He was also a direct counter to Cait and Vayne who were very popular as well. Gragas came into a lot of play as a counter to all of the assassins in mid. He was also not really forgotten as people still played him quite a bit even before worlds. A lot of people say certain champs have always been strong since forever, but that's simply not true. The meta game is always changing and that is why champs like Riven and top lane Nasus who weren't strong a year ago are top picks now even though they haven't had any significant changes.

Shai wrote:

Just play Janna and your ADC is fine. I still think she's the best at keeping shit off the ADC.

Thresh and Nami have good disengage as well.

Valkyrie wrote:

Corki and Ez were top ADC threats during S3. Sivir was revamped, Jinx was massively advertised and is quite op (try jungling with her), and Lucian was underestimated in S3 (he arrived mid/late S3). Imo, the only reason he's used more is because "x player used this and owned, so I will use that too" mentallity (not that no one isn't guilty of that). Your point still stands though. I don't want to make a comparisson to cb, but I personally would prefer a metagame where everything is relatively op rather than a metagame where only a small part is usuable; as the latter centralizes the game to much (which makes me think of the point you make about the players making the metagame).

I think that Riot failed to understand why people used mages as supports. Like when they initially nerfed sona, and how they nerfed midlane Soraka. It's not simply because they are stronger, it's because being a support is the most ungratifying role. Supports are the ones making the plays, and a team with a support is usually better than one that doesn't. The way riot "balanced" supports, ruined the role in the sense where one quickly became a deadweight. Playing Annie support however, doesn't have that problem. Your kit has offensive power, and people won't like your ult and your stun. When I played sup in S3, I'd always pick mages or a sup with a tank or AP rune page.

ADC's don't do anything useful until they get their last whisper as top laners like mundo and shyvana all have shittons of amour with sunfire and tabi. This is one of the reasons why you see more ad caster type adc's like lucian and sivir doing a lot better compared to others. Their core build is bt + lw whereas a champ like cait/vayne/ashe/varus require a pd or ss second before they get their lw. Another reason Lucian, Jinx, and Sivir are also played is because they all are strong laners with supports like annie, thresh, leona, and taric and are lane bullies. They can also push down turrets extremely fast. These are the reasons they are played, not just because they were advertised.

Strykerr wrote:

Relict? wrote:

People were dumb and just forgot about Corki.

Same shit goes with Gragas.



Started playing casually in mid S3 (to play with a friend but she doesn't play anymore so what's the point) and they didn't seem to be hyped until after wõrld cup.

This is because Triforce got a pretty big buff and corki became unstoppable again as its his core item. He was also a direct counter to Cait and Vayne who were very popular as well. Gragas came into a lot of play as a counter to all of the assassins in mid. He was also not really forgotten as people still played him quite a bit even before worlds. A lot of people say certain champs have always been strong since forever, but that's simply not true. The meta game is always changing and that is why champs like Riven and top lane Nasus who weren't strong a year ago are top picks now even though they haven't had any significant changes.

Shai wrote:

Just play Janna and your ADC is fine. I still think she's the best at keeping shit off the ADC.

Thresh and Nami have good disengage as well.

Valkyrie wrote:

Corki and Ez were top ADC threats during S3. Sivir was revamped, Jinx was massively advertised and is quite op (try jungling with her), and Lucian was underestimated in S3 (he arrived mid/late S3). Imo, the only reason he's used more is because "x player used this and owned, so I will use that too" mentallity (not that no one isn't guilty of that). Your point still stands though. I don't want to make a comparisson to cb, but I personally would prefer a metagame where everything is relatively op rather than a metagame where only a small part is usuable; as the latter centralizes the game to much (which makes me think of the point you make about the players making the metagame).

I think that Riot failed to understand why people used mages as supports. Like when they initially nerfed sona, and how they nerfed midlane Soraka. It's not simply because they are stronger, it's because being a support is the most ungratifying role. Supports are the ones making the plays, and a team with a support is usually better than one that doesn't. The way riot "balanced" supports, ruined the role in the sense where one quickly became a deadweight. Playing Annie support however, doesn't have that problem. Your kit has offensive power, and people won't like your ult and your stun. When I played sup in S3, I'd always pick mages or a sup with a tank or AP rune page.

ADC's don't do anything useful until they get their last whisper as top laners like mundo and shyvana all have shittons of amour with sunfire and tabi. This is one of the reasons why you see more ad caster type adc's like lucian and sivir doing a lot better compared to others. Their core build is bt + lw whereas a champ like cait/vayne/ashe/varus require a pd or ss second before they get their lw. Another reason Lucian, Jinx, and Sivir are also played is because they all are strong laners with supports like annie, thresh, leona, and taric and are lane bullies. They can also push down turrets extremely fast. These are the reasons they are played, not just because they were advertised.

Top lane Nasus carried games in s3 o.o

Also, lolwat? So you're thinking that a part of Jinx' popularity isn't due to the advertising that was done prior to her release? That's cute.

Top lane Nasus got shit on in S3 by like Jayce, Rumble, and Kennen. Elise and Renekton also made his life living hell. Let's not even talk about top lane Ryze who countered every melee champ.
And I said its not just the advertising that made Jinx popular, there are more reasons as I said before.

advertising don't mean shit
jinx kit strong as fuck

Winty wrote:

advertising don't mean shit
jinx kit strong as fuck

this too

To be fair I had people who knew jack shit about league asking if it was any good thanks to the ad.

to be fair new players don't affect the high level metagame(which is what is being discussed) because riot has installed numerous systems to prevent new players from being able to even attempt to take the game seriously until they have invested many hours into progressing through the shit that is pre-30

>And I said its not just the advertising that made Jinx popular

i am discussing this.

yeah that's cool i guess. But also fucking stupid to discuss.

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Also, lolwat? So you're thinking that a part of Jinx' popularity isn't due to the advertising that was done prior to her release? That's cute.

this isn't high level artificial academy play, this is high level league of legend. Nobody picks a character because it's their waifu, they pick it because it gets shit done.

fuck riot though. I think of the company as a small child whose favorite toy is different every day.

"hey riot what's your favorite jungler?"

"MY FAVORITE JUNGLERS ARE SKARNER AND MAOKAI I LOVE THEM FOREVER."

next day

"MY FAVORITE JUNGLERS ARE JARVAN AND ZIN XHAO"

next day

"MY FAVORITE JUNGLER IS ZAC. ONLY ZAC. AND MAYBE LEE SIN. I ALWAYS LIKED LEE SIN. NOT SKARNER THOUGH SKARNER IS UGLY AND SMELLS BAD."

"My favorite jungler is shyvana she was always my favorite jungler forever she is a cute dragon girl. She's also my favorite top laner."


same shit with ADCs.

I remember back in...season 2 i think it was? You'd pick urgot. You pick urgot and you would win.
And that wasn't cool.
And then if you ever picked urgot you would lose.
Because he wasn't allowed to be usable ever.
because riot saw people winning with urgot and said STOP THAT I DON'T LIKE URGOT.
and then you'd pick graves/corki/ez
and then you'd pick draven or vayne
and then you'd pick sivir/lucian/jinx
i mean why even sivir it's like riot woke up one day and said "today I am going to rework sivir. And she is going to be the best ad carry for a week. Then she will become the second best ad carry. I'm riot I'm retarded."

man FUCK riot.

ps pls make jungle diana good again ty

Yo winty, since you seem to love diana, here's a tip. You can ult then press q right before you ult and it will still go off and get you the ult refresh. Here's the video explaining how to do it.

https://i.imgur.com/snUqGzJ.jpg

support morgana counter to leona jajajajajaja

yo wtf that diana thing
that's crazy
i wish i could play her though. I fucking hate mid.