A followup of sorts to a conversation ingame yesterday(and a re-hash)

CapeMike wrote:

I still wanna put this Jet Hammer to use at some point...be a shame not to after the good things I've heard about it, and it coming from a present to myself....

...course, that's how I got Elisa too awhile back.... <_<

Still considering a few alternate options...a 'poor man's Katana Max' is where I seem to be headed....

Only good melee u have is jet hammer figure out how to use that.

Pro tip lots of str k shield and shortboost makes a difference.

I've likely got enough spare parts(and I really should check to be certain), to build 2 or 3 test bots for different melee setups(not including Elisa)...of course, without a way to reliably tune any of them, I'll just have to hope I hit on a working, simple to use concept quickly...or learn to short boost without disorienting myself in the process....

=edit=

Forgot to mention one very important thing about possible builds; it -must- have at least one ranged weapon(ranged WB acceptable)...I feel naked without a ranged weapon to fallback on.... :\

CapeMike wrote:

LXE wrote:

What I don't get is, why are you building a melee bot when you already have Elisalotte in your garage?

Well, as even the basics of melee fighting are still eluding me, I'd like to learn with something simpler before moving to Elisa...the Katana Max setup is straight-forward and seems forgiving...I've still GOT the Elisa, she's just sitting in the sub-garage...I've also got a number of unused Accel Saber Bs units I could use, and Elisa -does- already have Short Boost on her...given her abilities, I could see her being used in a defensive role, but given how her gauge only fills by attacking, that could be troublesome.... *ponders*

I think actually using the bot straight from the get-go would be a better route; you get used to its strengths and weaknesses instead of starting with a completely different style of bot. Also, I dont think Elisa is that complex. You have your basic melee slash ,which is pretty basic, and then Chivalry Slash for aura mode. Chivalry Slash may take a while to get used to how and when to use, but that should come after using her for a while. I may suggest on Elisa not to take on more threatening melee bots head on, such as the Vanguard series, MBG, unless literally forced to do so.

If you ever need tips or pointers, I'd be happy to help by spectating you ingame and etc.

CapeMike wrote:

I still wanna put this Jet Hammer to use at some point...be a shame not to after the good things I've heard about it, and it coming from a present to myself....

...course, that's how I got Elisa too awhile back.... <_<

Still considering a few alternate options...a 'poor man's Katana Max' is where I seem to be headed....

If you are gonna use a Jet Hammer you will most likely be ramboing. you WONT have enough ammo to last long so it would be beneficial to rush in with a teammate and Bam! Bam! the heck out of everyone

and elisalotte... i didnt think about it when i gave u one of my suggestions for a build, but seriously, she fits your playstyle. you alrdy have her and she has Broad Radar, her role isn't about rushing but to patiently WAIT for enemy rushers and unsuspecting PS breakers and backstab them from behind.

if you ever get a ZSG from lotto cube, you can try your luck in ZSG+Scythe build. she is small and agile, she deals around 100+ dmg per combo, etc.

SmileBrush wrote:

CapeMike wrote:

I still wanna put this Jet Hammer to use at some point...be a shame not to after the good things I've heard about it, and it coming from a present to myself....

...course, that's how I got Elisa too awhile back.... <_<

Still considering a few alternate options...a 'poor man's Katana Max' is where I seem to be headed....

If you are gonna use a Jet Hammer you will most likely be ramboing. you WONT have enough ammo to last long so it would be beneficial to rush in with a teammate and Bam! Bam! the heck out of everyone

and elisalotte... i didnt think about it when i gave u one of my suggestions for a build, but seriously, she fits your playstyle. you alrdy have her and she has Broad Radar, her role isn't about rushing but to patiently WAIT for enemy rushers and unsuspecting PS breakers and backstab them from behind.

if you ever get a ZSG from lotto cube, you can try your luck in ZSG+Scythe build. she is small and agile, she deals around 100+ dmg per combo, etc.

I freely admit wanting to try a Jet Hammer for quite awhile, if only so, when I finally -do- get a killshot on someone with it, i can do THIS:

...and scream 'Hikari Ni Narrreeeeeeeee!!'

CapeMike wrote:

I've likely got enough spare parts(and I really should check to be certain), to build 2 or 3 test bots for different melee setups(not including Elisa)...of course, without a way to reliably tune any of them, I'll just have to hope I hit on a working, simple to use concept quickly...or learn to short boost without disorienting myself in the process....

=edit=

Forgot to mention one very important thing about possible builds; it -must- have at least one ranged weapon(ranged WB acceptable)...I feel naked without a ranged weapon to fallback on.... :\

I suggest when you short boost, u shud get into habit of jumping DIAGONALLY and not just straight forward. that way when you are about to JHammer/kamui spam/etc the target, u dont accidentally jump OVER them, messing up your combo.

also you have to know this when u use hopping melees:

-when you are taking off, your melee attk will execute the same combo as if you were still on ground.
-when you are LANDING, however, your melee attk executes its AIR combo.
-generally, air combos are a bit slower than ground combos (but it does not mean you should always melee attk before you start to fall)
-weps like Kamui Staff have different order of slashes (ground combo will slash horizontal first, and then vertical... if i remember correctly. air combo does the other way around. use this to your advantage: horizontal slashes have better AOE, while vertical slashes can be used to prevent targets from flying away.)
-if you want to "lock on" to flying targets, u need to execute the air combo, not the ground combo (i think... i dont use melee as much as i used to)

SmileBrush wrote:

CapeMike wrote:

I've likely got enough spare parts(and I really should check to be certain), to build 2 or 3 test bots for different melee setups(not including Elisa)...of course, without a way to reliably tune any of them, I'll just have to hope I hit on a working, simple to use concept quickly...or learn to short boost without disorienting myself in the process....

=edit=

Forgot to mention one very important thing about possible builds; it -must- have at least one ranged weapon(ranged WB acceptable)...I feel naked without a ranged weapon to fallback on.... :\

I suggest when you short boost, u shud get into habit of jumping DIAGONALLY and not just straight forward. that way when you are about to JHammer/kamui spam/etc the target, u dont accidentally jump OVER them, messing up your combo.

also you have to know this when u use hopping melees:

-when you are taking off, your melee attk will execute the same combo as if you were still on ground.
-when you are LANDING, however, you melee attk executes its AIR combo.
-generally, air combos are a bit slower than ground combos (but it does not mean you should always melee attk before you start to fall)
-weps like Kamui Staff have different order of slashes (ground combo will slash horizontal first, and then vertical... if i remember correctly. air combo does the other way around. use this to your advantage: horizontal slashes have better AOE, while vertical slashes can be used to prevent targets from flying away.)

So if I understand you right, while on my way up, the combo triggers as if I'm still on the ground, and on my way down, as if it were an air combo...ok, that makes sense....

Just doesn't take much to get me confused about which direction I'm facing, which is why I tend to favor larger, slower setups.

is it possible for you to tell me all the Rt Land Bots you currently have?

i know that u have hatigarm, byne, and elisa for sure.

and do u have thoarla btw?

SmileBrush wrote:

is it possible for you to tell me all the Rt Land Bots you currently have?

i know that u have hatigarm, byne, and elisa for sure.

Hmm, lemme think...this would be by no means conclusive, as I'd have to check in game to be sure....

Yeah, have Hati, Byne HN, Elisa, 2 or 3 Hound Dogs(I'm rather fond of the tonfas), Katana Max Gold(not Rt, I know, but otherwise no longer obtainable)...I'll try to update as I go along.

Byne HN is the version without pilebunkers on the arms right?

(btw, Congratulations to CapeMike for getting post #22222 of the guides forums)

WOW EXPENSIVE. you have neither Cyclotes nor Daedalian so i made use of Hound Dog. i didn't know Hound Dog had such great carts until recently... he makes up to be a great hopper if u ever decide to be adventurous enough to try out a hopper build.

WHY DID I SELL MY HOUND DOG TO CRIM T^T I ONLY HAVE ONE NOW...

Spoiler:

If someone has a better BD, then make suggestions. about the lancerlot AM2, u can get a single-slot one from UC gara right now.

EDIT: i switched Quick Land with Boost Run since you are not fond of short boosting... yet.

Hyoka wrote:

Byne HN is the version without pilebunkers on the arms right?

(btw, Congratulations to CapeMike for getting post #22222 of the guides forums)

yes they are the ones without pilebunkers. and is it rly post number 22222? lolz that is legit.

CapeMike wrote:

I've likely got enough spare parts(and I really should check to be certain), to build 2 or 3 test bots for different melee setups(not including Elisa)...of course, without a way to reliably tune any of them, I'll just have to hope I hit on a working, simple to use concept quickly...or learn to short boost without disorienting myself in the process....

=edit=

Forgot to mention one very important thing about possible builds; it -must- have at least one ranged weapon(ranged WB acceptable)...I feel naked without a ranged weapon to fallback on.... :\

I think Dual Slayer bit will be MUCH more effective than dual Rifle bit, even if you dont have any ranged weapon.

Dual Rifles can be good (stun locking from safe distance, MAD dmg output under PS, etc...) but they dont have high hp (they get destroyed so easily. if u ever get hit by any zooka variations aside from micro, mini, and handy, BOTH ur bits will be destroyed with a single shot due to the AOE...

but if you still want a Dual Rifle Bit, you COULD switch the Boost Run from my Hound Dog JHam build and switch it for Tough Wonder Bit or Wonder Rate Up.

O.k., did some garage/sub-garage checking....

I've also got a Summer Misty and normal Misty; the former has a few levels on her and the latter is untouched...does that help?

=edit= un-related, but I *have* to tell this....

In a match earlier tonight on Green Fields, and I see a melee run into our little tunnel, trying to escape someone...he never notices me sneak around to the opposite exit, and when he pops out, he catches a Bugsy-shield to the face, immediately does a 180 turn and races back into the tunnel...and goes down to a 'zook shot of mine....

Misty is more of a gunner than a melee unit, so no.

Hyoka wrote:

Misty is more of a gunner than a melee unit, so no.

What about the scythe on that normal Misty...could it be useful on another bot?

The scythe... is... useless... ._.
not even misty, the one who comes WITH the scythe, can't utilize the scythe. lolz

the scythe is for display. since it does look a bit kewl :3

>MBHN

Equip Kamui for him, tune a decent wlk then the rest to str and u'll hav a good tanker bot. Change the BS and HD if u hav better parts, LG and AM hav built-in shield, u shouldn't change(unless one AM for K-shield).

Starting to feel that playing a defensive 'bodyguard' melee style would work best for me, given my aversion to being anywhere near the front-lines, which narrows the field to Elisa or Byne HN...Elisa has Broad Radar, is a smaller target and presumably better combo potential, while Byne can take a massive hammering and is slower, thus easier for me to keep under control....

*Jeapordy theme plays*

<_<

Unless you've got a K-Shield from UC gara now, I'd opt for Elisalotte. Large melee dies easy without proper shielding.

What I have noticed is that your bots are pretty much just do supporting and don't seem to fight in the frontlines. You'd rather stay behind the team firing line and shoot safely from afar and heal people when it is required. In my honest opinion your playstyle is very very passive, and you are not aggressive enough in your approach to play melee.

If you really want to play melee, instead of playing SUP, ART or whatnot all the time, have your commando full of melee bots and practise with it. Now instead of being one of those behind the frontline, you will instead be targeting them and there will be bots that you will have to avoid. Use obstacles to blow incoming attacks, and use the terrain to your advantage, caves and tunnels are your best friend, they have a low ceiling which will restrict the movement of AIR, and hoppers won't be able to move as much.

Spoiler:

CapeMike wrote:

Starting to feel that playing a defensive 'bodyguard' melee style would work best for me, given my aversion to being anywhere near the front-lines, which narrows the field to Elisa or Byne HN...Elisa has Broad Radar, is a smaller target and presumably better combo potential, while Byne can take a massive hammering and is slower, thus easier for me to keep under control....

*Jeapordy theme plays*

<_<

either play Elisalotte or (since you've mentioned about giving Jet Hammer a try):

Spoiler:

i lowered its WLK (for additional STR) and switched out Boost Run for Short Boost (since you are not going to INVADE but to DEFEND, i don't think overly HIGH WLK would help as much as bettr dmg).

Short Boost is basically a must-have cart for JHammer (jump and then right click for a bettr lock-on than just plain right clicking on the ground), since you dont wanna waste any of its ammo and u want every single hit to count.

when you are defending your team's SUPs and ARTs, most of the threats (other than high-altitude AIRs) WILL come from enemy melee rushers. Therefore Sword Guard is a 100% necessity, no matter what. idc how badly u want a space for another cartridge, u cant change Sword Guard imo. Broad Radar is.. obvious.

be aware that enemy lands will most likely be able to withstand your JHammer hits with shields (Mighty Byne, Mighty Byne Girl, K-shield hoppers and Nguyenst, etc) and the delay the hammer gives out will be of a trouble... but there isnt much to counter that.

LXE's right...; my play style's always been very passive, not only here, but in pretty much any game, using any method I could to either avoid detection in the 1st place or be able to beat a quick retreat and fire from a distance...both Elisa and Cosmo(w/Broad Radar) would fit into the role, and the latter's built-in guns at least give me a 'security blanket' of sorts...I've got all the parts needed for that build except the Cyberoid Lg...now, let's see how long it takes me to get 18k uc.... >_<;

If I went with an all-melee commando, that'd be...embarrassing at best, and turn me into an outright liability at worst for my team...a jumping-botter might actually out-score me...maybe I can get lucky and find some lv 5 rooms....

=edit= In reference to the 1st paragraph, as a result, I've actually gotten -very- good at sneaking around and going all ninja on someone when the situation called for it...; I recall some sit-down arcade game that involved futuristic hovercraft-tanks...I invariably went to the one equipped with a cloaking device and once used it to devastating effect by doing the last thing my opponent(was a 2-player sit-down model game) expected...which was to flank him while cloaked, get in front of him, charge at full speed and drop the cloak -just- long enough to alpha-strike him into oblivion, then re-cloak as I drove through his expanding fireball...still believe he never had time to realize what'd happened....

if you are being exclusively on self inflicted "guard duty", you also have the option to trade the movement speed bonus of lands for the ability to really protect your teammates
i tried to use only parts that i guess you have aviable to you, or that are readily aviable on at the very least the bazaar or cheap in the rt shop:

Spoiler:

of course, i didnt look much into the cores, so there is propably much more potential in a guard melee bot than this (with a bit more rt parts, there could also be MUCH more annoyance, think shock tonfas)

LXE wrote:

- See a FAT art, right click spam to kill it.
- See a very mobile ART, ignore it and run away.
- See somebody not moving and presumably AFK, kill it, IT'S A FREE KILL
- See a chibi, kill it.
- See another melee bot, run away, do not engage unless neccessary.
- See a SUP, kill it.
- See a medic healing team, use fire pillar on it, if you don't have fire pillar, just rush in, do as much damage as you can, rush out.
- See an AIR, RUN FOR YOUR LIFE.
- See an Alphastriker, run away.
- See a hopper, ignore it.
- See a Gatling gunner, run away.

the NECESSARY situation includes:

-when you are trapped
-when you see a VERY CAPABLE teammate who can lay down a very good damage onto enemy team if (s)he survives through out the fight (such as alpha strikers, pro players, AG/EVE/Fia/TBG/Mialy, etc) that is trapped by enemy melee
-OMG I MUST GET DAT LAST KILL AWARD &^$#%@#$%^&$&%%&!!!!!

SmileBrush wrote:

LXE wrote:

-snip-.

the NECESSARY situation includes:

-when you are trapped - No, you shouldn't be trapped in the first place.
-when you see a VERY CAPABLE teammate who can lay down a very good damage onto enemy team if (s)he survives through out the fight (such as alpha strikers, pro players, AG/EVE/Fia/TBG/Mialy, etc) that is trapped by enemy melee - In that case, run away. Don't want to waste your HP.
-OMG I MUST GET DAT LAST KILL AWARD &^$#%@#$%^&$&%%&!!!!! - No, that's just plain stupid.

- When you can't outrun it.
- When you want to escape it's stunlock.
- When it's on very very low HP and can be killed in a few hits.
- When it's a noob player, self explanatory.
- When you have nothing else to attack.
- When it is looking away from you and doesn't know you're behind it. Backstab it, hit and run.
- When it targets you.
- When you get slowed by it.
- When you want to die.
- When you want to feed.
- When you are LXE/Hakuo.

LXE wrote:

SmileBrush wrote:

LXE wrote:

-snip-.

the NECESSARY situation includes:

-when you are trapped - No, you shouldn't be trapped in the first place.
-when you see a VERY CAPABLE teammate who can lay down a very good damage onto enemy team if (s)he survives through out the fight (such as alpha strikers, pro players, AG/EVE/Fia/TBG/Mialy, etc) that is trapped by enemy melee - In that case, run away. Don't want to waste your HP.
-OMG I MUST GET DAT LAST KILL AWARD &^$#%@#$%^&$&%%&!!!!! - No, that's just plain stupid.

- When you can't outrun it.
- When you want to escape it's stunlock.
- When it's on very very low HP and can be killed in a few hits.
- When it's a noob player, self explanatory.
- When you have nothing else to attack.
- When it is looking away from you and doesn't know you're behind it. Backstab it, hit and run.
- When it targets you.
- When you get slowed by it.
- When you want to die.
- When you want to feed.
- When you are LXE/Hakuo.

nice.