The Gatling

I just got a Buster Gatling from Weekly Gara and this is my current build that i am using.
【Robot Name】
Accel Saber

【Parts】
BD： Accel Saber BD
　： Spike Bit(default)
　： Ace Braver LG
　： Neon Neos HD
　　： Taoyamenokazari
　　： Autumn Earrings
　： Neon Neos HD
　　： Cute Beret
　　： Autumn Earrings
　： Misty Hollow BS
　： Jikun AM
　　： Buckler
　： Turtlebacker AM
　　： Buster Gatling

【Config Check】
COST： OK
BS： OK
LG： OK

【Stats】
TYPE： 陸
SIZE： M
COST： 785
CAPA： 800
HP： 340
STR： 8
TEC： 14
WLK： 31
FLY： 1
TGH： 13

LEVEL： 1

【Cartridges】
Capacity +70


What I want to build.
Purple Boost Run 40 Walk 18 Fly

【Robot Name】
Accel Saber

【Parts】
BD： Accel Saber BD
　： Sniping Unit
　： Ace Braver LG [High Run] [High Run] [High Run]
　： Zero Fighter HD [Boost]
　　： Taoyamenokazari
　　： Autumn Earrings [High Boost]
　： Neon Neos HD [High Run] [High Boost] [High Boost]
　　： Cute Beret
　　： Autumn Earrings [High Boost]
　： Misty Hollow BS [High Boost] [High Boost] [High Boost]
　： Jikun AM
　　： Buckler
　： Jikun AM
　　： Buster Gatling [Great Force Beta]

【Config Check】
COST： OK
BS： OK
LG： OK

【Stats】
TYPE： 陸
SIZE： M
COST： 1145
CAPA： 1150
HP： 390
STR： 8
TEC： 15
WLK： 40
FLY： 18
TGH： 11

LEVEL： 9

【Cartridges】
Capacity +70×6
Blast Guard
Tough Runner
Boost Run

【必要素材】
Hidora Cosmos×1
Fudara Cosmos×11
Threede Cosmos×1
Blue Chip×20
Engine Shaft×52
Turbo Charger×96
Strike Metal×9
Drum Magazine×77
Snail Liquid×44
Acid Gel×15

Skyr wrote:

Purple Boost Run 40 Walk 18 Fly

Why you need dat much on a Gatlinger?
Anyway, should use Shino Gatling hopper

since i see this pretty often:

why great force beta ?

why shino? you can always make a hopping accel saber too.

Cuz I don't even finish up the ammo in epoch

Huge gattling > double gattling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> buster gattling

dont have huge or double >.<

Heres a hopper build

【Robot Name】
Accel Saber

【Parts】
BD： Accel Saber BD
　： Spike Bit(default)
　： Ace Braver LG [High Run Alpha] [High Run Alpha] [High Tech Alpha]
　： Zero Fighter HD [High Tech Alpha]
　　： Taoyamenokazari
　　： Autumn Earrings [High Tech]
　： Neon Neos HD [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech Alpha]
　　： Cute Beret
　　： Autumn Earrings [High Tech]
　： Misty Hollow BS [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech]
　： Jikun AM
　　： Buckler
　： Jikun AM
　　： Buster Gatling [Great Force Beta] [Great Force Beta]

【Config Check】
COST： OK
BS： OK
LG： OK

【Stats】
TYPE： 陸
SIZE： M
COST： 1140
CAPA： 1150
HP： 390
STR： 1
TEC： 35
WLK： 36
FLY： 1
TGH： 11

LEVEL： 9

【Cartridges】
Capacity +70×6
Blast Guard
Short Boost
Quick Land

【必要素材】
Fudara Cosmos×12
Threede Cosmos×2
Red Chip×70
Blue Chip×40
Green Chip×20
Stabilizer×102
Engine Shaft×18
Strike Metal×18
Guide Circuit×82
Snail Liquid×14
Acid Gel×30

Aurum_Sol wrote:

since i see this pretty often:

why great force beta ?

Gatlings + Force Tunes = Graphic Penetration.

Buster Gatling has 6 force. +1 force = 7 force.
Buster Gatling shoots 60 rounds a clip, lets use that as a comparison.

With 35 TEC, TGH being non-existent, and no rounding has been made, you're looking at, uh...
6 force, 8.4 damage a shot, 504 damage a clip, 60 damage a second.
7 force, 9.8 damage a shot, 588 damage a clip, 70 damage a second.

That, and gatling has enough speed and range.

Cori wrote:

Huge gattling > double gattling >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> buster gattling

Buster Gatling good for M sized bots, considering the others are LL. EcchiSeiben AM good for S sized bots, considering the rest are L or LL. And I don't think Boildeck AM is a nice gatling for M sizes...

For M sizes, like Accel Saber (what he's using), Buster > EcchiSeiben AM > Boildeck >>> Rest due to accessibility.

Most people do speed tunes on gatlings.

It already goes pretty fast,but take that into consideration
If only speed tunes affected the int of bullets..>.<

Most S-sized and M-sized only have around 11TGH. When I get shot, it is usually an alpha air or seraph with ABR or gang of shit, so TGH wouldn't really help in those situations

ok let me restate my question, since its obviously not understood in this thread

why do you tune GREAT force when you have the SAME effect with >one normal force<

now that he put two great force on the weapon i can at least see some use of those FUCKING 60 COST

i mean, come on, its nowwhere near efficient, a speed tune would help you reduce your ammo and actually let you see a benefit for much less cost (1 great rapid beta + 1 normal force = 30 cost for 1 force and 15% bulletspeed)

i wonder why you people even use the cosmic calc when you dont read whats written on the screen anyways

+ your not on the techbreakpoints for your weapon anyways ... well, i read somewhere in this forum that this can be useful with fast firing weaponry so this might not be a problem, perhaps

edit: a little less rude

There's tech break points for every type of weapon?..SHOW ME NOW!!!
Thanks for the tip for tuning the Gatling.
I don't really mind people being rude to me as along as there is a good and reasonable answer to it.

So is this better?

【Robot Name】
Accel Saber

【Parts】
BD： Accel Saber BD
　： Spike Bit(default)
　： Ace Braver LG [High Run Alpha] [High Run Alpha] [High Tech Alpha]
　： Zero Fighter HD [High Tech Alpha]
　　： Taoyamenokazari
　　： Autumn Earrings [High Tech]
　： Neon Neos HD [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech Alpha]
　　： Cute Beret
　　： Autumn Earrings [High Tech]
　： Misty Hollow BS [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech]
　： Jikun AM
　　： Buckler
　： Jikun AM
　　： Buster Gatling [Great Rapid Beta] [Force] [Force]

【Config Check】
COST： OK
BS： OK
LG： OK

【Stats】
TYPE： 陸
SIZE： M
COST： 1120
CAPA： 1150
HP： 390
STR： 1
TEC： 35
WLK： 36
FLY： 1
TGH： 11

LEVEL： 9

【Cartridges】
Capacity +70×6
Blast Guard
Short Boost
Quick Land

【必要素材】
Fudara Cosmos×12
Ones Cosmos×2
Threede Cosmos×1
Red Chip×70
Green Chip×40
Stabilizer×102
Engine Shaft×18
Strike Metal×8
Rapid Crystal×17
Guide Circuit×82
Heat Ash×15
Snail Liquid×14

Wait... Will the 2 force tunes work?
I tried it on Patty once, first Force gave 1+, but the second gave 0 force. Seeing as that weapon has less force than Patty's, the same will probably happen?

you have two options for the force tunes on your gattling

its either
a)
a single force tune for 3%, the game will give you always the minimum reward hence, the 3% will be rounded up to 1 force, your gattling has now 7 force instead of 6

----------------------
EDIT: if you do multiple 3 % force tunes on one weapon the game will count them together to 6 / 9 % and round the force accordingly, so you will NOT recieve 1 force each time you do a normal force tune, however you are GUARANTEED one force for the first 3% tune! (this makes normal force much more effective on low force weapons then on higher force weapons)

edit just because this seemed not clear yet
----------------------

b)
2 Great force tunes for 18% extra force, if you do multiple force tunes, the game will count them together and give force accordingly, so if you did two single force tunes you would have 6% resulting in still only 1 force, with 18% however you will gain another force so with dual great force you end up with 8 force on your weapon

the tech breakpoints are dependent on how much force your weapon has, in cosmic calc you have two bars on the bottom, one blue (main weapon bar) and one blue (subweapon bar), the calc is set to use the proper stat for calculation (tech or strengh) dependend on which weapon you are checking
now here is how you do it: you set the tunes into your weapon and hover above it so that its stats are listed, now you will see the bar and a number highlighted in yellow, this is your current damage resulting of tech/strengh and weaponforce
to do it as effective as possible you will now read at how much tech you reach the damage you want to go in and stay there, more tech without reaching a higher damage value will not change the damageoutput, and thus is wasted cost

TLDR: breakpoints for 6 force tech based weapons: 5,16,26,37 for weapons with 7 force 6,15,24,33 for weapons with 8 force they are 7,14,22,30,38 pick one force value for your weapon and an according breakpoint you think will be best suited for your build

personally i would propably use 2 great rapid betas for easy aiming and a force tune ... some people also like paralyze on a gattling but i never tested that so i cannot give a comment if its good or bad

edit number2 : i just noticed i already wrote in point B) what i edited into point A) later on >.>

According to Suguri, the formula recalculates when TGH comes into play. It's not a huge importance to use these so-called TEC Breakpoints.

Fireflywater wrote:

According to Suguri, the formula recalculates when TGH comes into play. It's not a huge importance to use these so-called TEC Breakpoints.

that is a possibility but i didnt see any test of that yet, i would be up tomorrow for a testing of that matter if there is someone to test it with (judging from the rest of the mechanics i would think that toughness reduction and damage dealt are two different formulars and the game also doesnt seem to remember anything that isnt a whole number (thinking back into WoW theory crafting, cosmic break seems constructed in a simple way)

if thats already tested id like to know it

The Max TEC+Force ratio is 10, so I lowered my tec to 33 since I would still have 10.
Also put two G rapid Betas on the gatling as Aurum_Sol suggested

【Robot Name】
Accel Saber

【Parts】
BD： Accel Saber BD
　： Dual Slayer Bit
　： Ace Braver LG [High Run Alpha] [High Run Alpha] [High Tech Alpha]
　： Zero Fighter HD [High Tech Alpha]
　　： Taoyamenokazari
　　： Autumn Earrings [High Tech]
　： Neon Neos HD [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech Alpha]
　　： Cute Beret
　　： Autumn Earrings [High Tech]
　： Misty Hollow BS [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech]
　： Jikun AM
　　： Buckler
　： Jikun AM
　　： Buster Gatling [Great Rapid Beta] [Great Rapid Beta] [Force]

【Config Check】
COST： OK
BS： OK
LG： OK

【Stats】
TYPE： 陸
SIZE： M
COST： 1130
CAPA： 1150
HP： 390
STR： 2
TEC： 33
WLK： 36
FLY： 1
TGH： 11

LEVEL： 9

【Cartridges】
Capacity +70×6
Blast Guard
Short Boost
Quick Land

【必要素材】
Fudara Cosmos×11
Ones Cosmos×1
Threede Cosmos×2
Red Chip×60
Green Chip×60
Stabilizer×93
Engine Shaft×18
Strike Metal×4
Rapid Crystal×34
Guide Circuit×75
Heat Ash×30
Snail Liquid×14

weaponwise seems fine now, hopping wise ... well i dont play hoppers so yeah, cant help you on your movement stuff with hoppers (if it offers tough runner you might consider getting it cause i read it applies to short boosting too)

Try build arm AMs and cosmo kaiser HDs. Tune them with as much wlk as you want.

Wait. You want to tell me you're using cosmicalc to build your builds, but you won't highlight your weap, then glance at the bottom of the screen to see how much damage you're doing? What? There are built in STR/TEC charts at the bottom of cosmicalc, and if it's bugging on you for whatever coding reason, you can click it, scroll it and match TEC/STR to force.

My brain--

Okay one more thing that I thought would be blatantly obvious:

TGH reduction occurs with every hit landed on a robot in a period of time. Hence faster INT gun would have a bigger TGH reduction issue vs a gun with a slower INT if you guys are not so shitty with aim that you only land a hit every 1-2s. Hence, gatlings (being a fast INT) would detract heavily from TGH reduc, and because it is a low force weapon (typically less than 10 force), you'll only get ~1 point force no matter what force tune you do (because if people read, it adds a % of your original base force to your gun). And since CB rounds up to the next number when it comes to force base (WHICH YOU SHOULD BE THANKFUL FOR AT THIS POINT) you only get one point of force. Because if it rounded down, you wouldn't even be able to tune force at all for any sort of benefit *facepalms*

Also TEC/STR benefits more from a higher base force weapon than a lower because of its formula (WHERE IT'S BASED AGAIN. ON A PERCENTAGE OF THE ORIGINAL).

Now if you don't want speed tunes on your gatling, do what Patty players do and tune a paralyze. It's 50 cost though.

I'm sorry I've been kinda rude in my most recent posts. I'm reaching the end of my patience tether these days.

ngelicdark wrote:

Also TEC/STR benefits more from a higher base force weapon than a lower because of its formula (WHERE IT'S BASED AGAIN. ON A PERCENTAGE OF THE ORIGINAL).

68% are 68% no matter what force you apply it too, low force weapons get the same benefit (in some cases they get slightly more, or less benefit due to rounding to the full number via normal rounding rules unlike force, which seems to always round up)

Wouldn't 24 tec be better?
Too much cost just to get +1 on the tec chart. Get some other carts or just go with low cost.

Spoiler:

Didn't care much about low cost and parts, but everything is easy to get.
Also, it's a poorfag build, no need to waste prots besides on the weapon.


Damn, I wish I had that Gatling. It would fit my accel so damn well (drum machigun range is too short, and I don't have anything else besides Combat mag).

I think that my accel has even less tunes to get the same speed, since I used parts that weren't being used anymore or that failed at tuning. Because of the Combat Mag, duh.


Edit: Crazy Idea: Hypershot tune.

Aurum_Sol wrote:

ngelicdark wrote:

Also TEC/STR benefits more from a higher base force weapon than a lower because of its formula (WHERE IT'S BASED AGAIN. ON A PERCENTAGE OF THE ORIGINAL).

68% are 68% no matter what force you apply it too, low force weapons get the same benefit (in some cases they get slightly more, or less benefit due to rounding to the full number via normal rounding rules unlike force, which seems to always round up)

You're misinterpreting what ngelic's saying. If you have a 2 force gun and pump it to 40 tec, you'll get +1 force. If you have a 90 force "gun", you'll get +43 force for it.

i know what he was saying, its still a missconception since tech raises the damage per second of a weapon by linear amount

the outcome is the same and only the interval of the weapon in combination with toughnessreduction makes a difference in actualy gain

since both things are unrelated it is simply a wrong statements, in this specific case ngelic is right because its a build for pvp means, however if its used in bossfights where toughness seems nonpresent its simply not true

dont forget that the pvp mechanics are not omnipresent in this game

PS: let me be clear here, this is my viewpoint and its importance may differ from your viewpoints
i base this on my past as world of warcraft player which sadly brought quite alot of theorycrafting with it (only the semi serious part though, im not the type of player that pulls out every formular of the game by testing like some others did there)

Aurum_Sol wrote:

i know what he was saying, its still a missconception since tech raises the damage per second of a weapon by linear amount

the outcome is the same and only the interval of the weapon in combination with toughnessreduction makes a difference in actualy gain

since both things are unrelated it is simply a wrong statements, in this specific case ngelic is right because its a build for pvp means, however if its used in bossfights where toughness seems nonpresent its simply not true

dont forget that the pvp mechanics are not omnipresent in this game

*sigh* All right let's clear this up a bit.

First off, I'm a girl. If you don't believe it, then w/e. But I like my gender tyvm.

Second of all, the misconception of TEC being nonlinear isn't so much a misconception so much as shortsightedness. Judging from the TEC formula that any player would bother hunting down, damage theoretically goes up by a linear scale. The only problem is that CB only deals with whole numbers, leading to plateaus and not so much a perfectly linear line. Should the scale had increased by more than 20% as it does now, you would see much less plateauing and much more linear-ity. If that's so much a word. It's not so much that the formula is hyperbolic or any sorts fancy, which leads to a nonlinear curve, so much as there is a rule placed over it.

I was relating INT and TGH reduc because someone said that Suguri said that TGH was part of the damage formula etc. but that simply is not true. Again, it's simply another rule imposed over the same formula we know. CB made things simple in terms of calculations, but made it difficult simply by adding rule over rule over rule to overlap them (whether or not it's flawed is your opinion). The only part I'll say DPS has any part of the discussion is because INT/TGH reduc relationship is based on an axis of time. The longer you focus the player with more bullets (which is why Double gatling is a double edged sword), the less damage per bullet you'll do overtime. If you want more consistent DPS over a period of time, then you use a bazooka like weap in terms of force/INT.

A gatling hopper is not meant for boss battling btw I'm sure you know, and I wasn't trying to point out TGH reduc not existing in boss battles (I'm sure unless most people were trying to squeeze out more DPS from their boss runners, they'd just simply slap on more custom shotties/mmbgs for that effect). So honestly, I think that statement is a red herring in this discussion.

Also, I understand your viewpoints are different, but I doubt it's because WoW made a different player out of you. I have a fellow friend who plays WoW a lot, loves theorycrafting all the same, and he's never changed in terms of viewpoint when it came to it (except raging every time Blizzard changed talent tree/formulas/etc.). Theorycrafting is meant to be a logical, structured projection of game mechanics working in a less variable world so that the results become predictable. Which is why it's always theory. If your viewpoints are different, it's because there's a subjective thing you place more emphasis upon.

In which, that only makes you human.

@OP

I completely forgot about mentioning this earlier, and I'm surprised that no one mentioned it before but--

Boost run+gatling=problems. You're going to have to mod your aim quite a bit in order to play this kind of build well AKA Need2Lrn2Aim.

Not to mention that shooting with a lnd on boost run will have tons of "breaks" to refill the boost. :/