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 In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.

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boytitan2
knyx
shinigami
Raven
chengsta
Suguri
Kitouski
LordShade
BB
Nisa
xzpwnz
Gigaknight
cheongzewei
FreedomFighter
necrio
azz33
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azz33
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In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. Empty
PostSubject: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 12:20 pm

Quoting from other topic.

Suguri wrote:

SUPERFLY = Anything can be rolled.
CAR CRASH = Gold balls cannot be rolled.
DERPWALK = Neither gold nor silver balls can be rolled.

If this is true:

If want to get the best items, roll 1 time would be better than roll 5 times?.

Roll 5 times and get car crash = 160RT wasted.
Roll 5 times and get weirdwalk = 160RT wasted.

5 rolls are 160RT.
1 roll is 40RT.

Single rolls means more animation that in theory increase the chance of getting the best prize but of course, doing single rolls means 1 roll less compared to 5 rolls, however if the animation thing is rigth, it would mean the chances of get good things are higher.
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necrio
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 12:44 pm

azz33 wrote:
Quoting from other topic.

Suguri wrote:

SUPERFLY = Anything can be rolled.
CAR CRASH = Gold balls cannot be rolled.
DERPWALK = Neither gold nor silver balls can be rolled.

If this is true:

If want to get the best items, roll 1 time would be better than roll 5 times?.

Roll 5 times and get car crash = 160RT wasted.
Roll 5 times and get weirdwalk = 160RT wasted.

5 rolls are 160RT.
1 roll is 40RT.

Single rolls means more animation that in theory increase the chance of getting the best prize but of course, doing single rolls means 1 roll less compared to 5 rolls, however if the animation thing is rigth, it would mean the chances of get good things are higher.
I guess that's the advantage of rolling singles

BUT

in theory the animations are determined by the timing of the button presses
which means if you can master the timing, x5 rolls are much better
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In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. Empty
PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 12:49 pm

I rolled super snailhead in 5x and got 1 junk, 4 bronzes.
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FreedomFighter
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 1:10 pm

timing press??? what is it?
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azz33
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 1:12 pm

necrio wrote:

in theory the animations are determined by the timing of the button presses

What?.
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cheongzewei
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 2:14 pm

What timing of the button press must we have?
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 2:15 pm

necrio wrote:

in theory the animations are determined by the timing of the button presses
which means if you can master the timing, x5 rolls are much better

Only a theory, as far as I have seen. Tried it earlier with Rt I got from the free offers, and only got the treadmill and the car. :\


I only got tune-up materials, two Auto Beam Guns (or whatever they're called), and that Zero Saber without Zero Step.
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xzpwnz
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 2:36 pm

Evee gara is rigged for FLY only
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 2:39 pm

THEY DON'T WORK.
Try it out in UC garapawn.
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BB
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 4:58 pm

I tried. I don't think it works.
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LordShade
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 5:17 pm

xzpwnz wrote:
Evee gara is rigged for FLY only

not that it matters, there's so many god damn gold prizes getting eve is incredibly hard
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Kitouski
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 5:25 pm

Wait, has this animation thing even been proven? o_o
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BB
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 5:30 pm

Kitouski wrote:
Wait, has this animation thing even been proven? o_o

No, like they said, it's a theory.

I tested it on UC and RT garapon.

UC gara = regardless of animation, blue balls and occassionally silver. Can't get bronze if I tried. Gold, random.

RT gara = same thing, with less blue.
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 5:31 pm

Yeah, but on the other hand if you do get the superfly animation and only roll once, there's a pretty good chance you won't get the gold bot you're looking for.

In the end I'd say it comes out about the same, but if you get superfly + x5 roll you've got a great chance of getting something good.

Kitouski wrote:
Wait, has this animation thing even been proven? o_o
Yes, quite awhile ago.

BB wrote:
Kitouski wrote:
Wait, has this animation thing even been proven? o_o

No, like they said, it's a theory.

I tested it on UC and RT garapon.

UC gara = regardless of animation, blue balls and occassionally silver. Can't get bronze if I tried. Gold, random.

RT gara = same thing, with less blue.

Code:

5x5 Results b r B S G
CARCRASH brbSb TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY brGbG TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE
CARCRASH SrSbr TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY BSbbr TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
DERPWALK brbbb TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
10x5
SUPERFLY SbrbB TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY bSbBb TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH bBbbb TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH bSbbb TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY Sbrbb TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
15x5
CARCRASH Sbrbb TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY SSbbb TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY brSbG TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE
SUPERFLY bbrBb TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
DERPWALK Bbbrb TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
20x5
CARCRASH bbrbB TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
DERPWALK brbbb TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
SUPERFLY bbbbS TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH BbbbB TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH brbSb TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
25x5
SUPERFLY BrbSb TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH rbBBS TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH brBbB TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
SUPERFLY brGbb TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE
DERPWALK bbbBb TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE FALSE
30x5
SUPERFLY Gbbbb TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE TRUE
CARCRASH bbbSb TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY BbSSb TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY rbSbS TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY bbbSb TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
35x5
SUPERFLY rSSSr FALSE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY bbbbS TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY bbbSb TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH bbbBb TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH SrSbB TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
40x5
CARCRASH Srbbb TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY BbbbS TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY bBSSB TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY bbbrS TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH bbbBB TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE FALSE
45x5
DERPWALK brbbb TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
SUPERFLY bbbGb TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE TRUE
CARCRASH rrrbv TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
DERPWALK rbrbr TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH bBBBb TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE FALSE
50x5
CARCRASH bbbrB TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH rbbbB TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH BbBbS TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE FALSE
DERPWALK bbrbr TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH rbrSb TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
55x5
SUPERFLY rbBSr TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH bbbSB TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH bbrbb TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
SUPERFLY SrbbB TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
DERPWALK bbbbb TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE
60x5
SUPERFLY brSBb TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH Sbrbb TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH bBbbB TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE FALSE
SUPERFLY bSbbb TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH BrbbB TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
65x5
CARCRASH brBBb TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH bbbbS TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
DERPWALK bbbrb TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH rbrbb TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
SUPERFLY SGrbb TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE
70x5
CARCRASH BbSSb TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY BSbbb TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY rbBGb TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE
CARCRASH bSbbb TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
DERPWALK Bbbbb TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE FALSE
75x5
SUPERFLY bbGbb TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE TRUE
CARCRASH bBbSr TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY SrBbr TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH Bbrbb TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
SUPERFLY bbSGG TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE TRUE
Note how there was never a single silver found on any walking rolls after 75 rolls.

And this was UC gara, btw.
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 5:36 pm

Suguri wrote:
but if you get superfly + x5 roll you've got a great chance of getting something good.
I didn't, which means I had an E grade Luck.
I should go find a relic which can increase my Luck by at least 2 ranks, although I don't think I'll find it if my Luck is this bad.
Man, being a lancer class sucks.
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chengsta
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In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. Empty
PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 5:38 pm

90+ rolls and counting. I got like 10+ of every bot but eve. my clanmates who have gotten her (took them an average of 70+ rolls too) say that she's totally not worth it, for how much she costed. She is decent, but not all that different from the normal lilly rain. Maybe i should stop and cut my losses...
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BB
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 5:41 pm

Suguri wrote:
Yeah, but on the other hand if you do get the superfly animation and only roll once, there's a pretty good chance you won't get the gold bot you're looking for.

In the end I'd say it comes out about the same, but if you get superfly + x5 roll you've got a great chance of getting something good.

Kitouski wrote:
Wait, has this animation thing even been proven? o_o
Yes, quite awhile ago.

BB wrote:
Kitouski wrote:
Wait, has this animation thing even been proven? o_o

No, like they said, it's a theory.

I tested it on UC and RT garapon.

UC gara = regardless of animation, blue balls and occassionally silver. Can't get bronze if I tried. Gold, random.

RT gara = same thing, with less blue.

Code:

5x5 Results b r B S G
CARCRASH brbSb TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY brGbG TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE
CARCRASH SrSbr TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY BSbbr TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
DERPWALK brbbb TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
10x5
SUPERFLY SbrbB TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY bSbBb TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH bBbbb TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH bSbbb TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY Sbrbb TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
15x5
CARCRASH Sbrbb TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY SSbbb TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY brSbG TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE
SUPERFLY bbrBb TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
DERPWALK Bbbrb TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
20x5
CARCRASH bbrbB TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
DERPWALK brbbb TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
SUPERFLY bbbbS TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH BbbbB TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH brbSb TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
25x5
SUPERFLY BrbSb TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH rbBBS TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH brBbB TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
SUPERFLY brGbb TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE
DERPWALK bbbBb TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE FALSE
30x5
SUPERFLY Gbbbb TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE TRUE
CARCRASH bbbSb TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY BbSSb TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY rbSbS TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY bbbSb TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
35x5
SUPERFLY rSSSr FALSE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY bbbbS TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY bbbSb TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH bbbBb TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH SrSbB TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
40x5
CARCRASH Srbbb TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY BbbbS TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY bBSSB TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY bbbrS TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH bbbBB TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE FALSE
45x5
DERPWALK brbbb TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
SUPERFLY bbbGb TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE TRUE
CARCRASH rrrbv TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
DERPWALK rbrbr TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH bBBBb TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE FALSE
50x5
CARCRASH bbbrB TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH rbbbB TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH BbBbS TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE FALSE
DERPWALK bbrbr TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH rbrSb TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
55x5
SUPERFLY rbBSr TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH bbbSB TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH bbrbb TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
SUPERFLY SrbbB TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
DERPWALK bbbbb TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE FALSE
60x5
SUPERFLY brSBb TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH Sbrbb TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH bBbbB TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE FALSE
SUPERFLY bSbbb TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH BrbbB TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
65x5
CARCRASH brBBb TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH bbbbS TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
DERPWALK bbbrb TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
CARCRASH rbrbb TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE
SUPERFLY SGrbb TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE
70x5
CARCRASH BbSSb TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY BSbbb TRUE FALSE TRUE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY rbBGb TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE TRUE
CARCRASH bSbbb TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE FALSE
DERPWALK Bbbbb TRUE FALSE TRUE FALSE FALSE
75x5
SUPERFLY bbGbb TRUE FALSE FALSE FALSE TRUE
CARCRASH bBbSr TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
SUPERFLY SrBbr TRUE TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE
CARCRASH Bbrbb TRUE TRUE TRUE FALSE FALSE
SUPERFLY bbSGG TRUE FALSE FALSE TRUE TRUE
Note how there was never a single silver found on any walking rolls after 75 rolls.

And this was UC gara, btw.

Saying what I noticed from my experience. Tried timing the glow on the handle when hitting roll x#, also tried it seperately when hitting okay and I tried doing both. The animations that I got seemed random and so did the awards. Whether or not it increases the "opportunity" to get a certain color, I don't know.

As far as actually getting what you want, or a guarantee of it, I strongly disbelieve.
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In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. Empty
PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 6:21 pm

For the record, my understanding is that doing 5x roll in a non UC garapon guarantees the super animation. So in that sense it is more worth it to do 5 than 1.

And super animation doesn't GUARANTEE you a gold ball, it just means you have a chance at one. Anything else means no gold ball for you, period. In the UC garapon, the reason you get super dude and no gold is because the rates for gold are already so low.
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 6:39 pm

Raven wrote:
For the record, my understanding is that doing 5x roll in a non UC garapon guarantees the super animation. So in that sense it is more worth it to do 5 than 1.

And super animation doesn't GUARANTEE you a gold ball, it just means you have a chance at one. Anything else means no gold ball for you, period. In the UC garapon, the reason you get super dude and no gold is because the rates for gold are already so low.
This, though I've only gotten carcrash in gara 1 on x5 rolls.
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 10:41 pm

Never tried single rolls b4 cause it's waste of 1 roll worth of UC/Rt,which for Rt I'd definately not take my chances.

I'd try UC gara maybe..to see if that's true.

A funny thing is I've only seen carcrashes and superflies in all my gara rolls in CBEN,and one more different amimation in CBJP,forgot wt it was.
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 11:07 pm

shinigami wrote:
Never tried single rolls b4 cause it's waste of 1 roll worth of UC/Rt,which for Rt I'd definately not take my chances.

I'd try UC gara maybe..to see if that's true.

A funny thing is I've only seen carcrashes and superflies in all my gara rolls in CBEN,and one more different amimation in CBJP,forgot wt it was.

You can get derp walk on single rolls, much more common on the UC garapon. Of all the rolls I've done, I've only seen my friend get it once on a single roll, and it was a blue.
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 11:23 pm

I think the chances are determined by how many total possible balls you have to choose from. See the Rt garas, they have much higher numbers of gold/silver than bronze/red/blue, while UC gara has like 50 blueballs.
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 11:40 pm

knyx wrote:
I think the chances are determined by how many total possible balls you have to choose from. See the Rt garas, they have much higher numbers of gold/silver than bronze/red/blue, while UC gara has like 50 blueballs.
I've seen enough to where I'm positive you have an equal chance of getting any given object in the gara, so long as the loading screen hasn't shut you out from the tier it's in (gold or silver, respectively). I remade gara 1 on my calculator by stringing four random number generators together, and the results you'd expect are pretty much identical.
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PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyThu Feb 03, 2011 11:48 pm

Suguri wrote:
knyx wrote:
I think the chances are determined by how many total possible balls you have to choose from. See the Rt garas, they have much higher numbers of gold/silver than bronze/red/blue, while UC gara has like 50 blueballs.
I've seen enough to where I'm positive you have an equal chance of getting any given object in the gara, so long as the loading screen hasn't shut you out from the tier it's in (gold or silver, respectively). I remade gara 1 on my calculator by stringing four random number generators together, and the results you'd expect are pretty much identical.

The EVE gara has a reasonable number of blue balls,and the blue balls have OK prizes too,compared to pompom.So the chances of getting something gd is quite easy,I'd rather get a blue ball than a Jikun or Lancerlot now.I CRAVE slot protectors.

UC gara,don think I'd roll it soon,F-- luck on that.The UC gara in CBJP is better,tho more costly(2000 per roll),I have a high chance to get 3 slotted parts.
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In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. Empty
PostSubject: Re: In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?.   In theory, 1 roll > 5 rolls?. EmptyFri Feb 04, 2011 10:11 am

well when I want good tune up parts like slot protector and all that in a packege I on purposely do 1x higher chance of tread meal
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