- Winty wrote:
- i like how you ignored the rest of what I typed in order to talk about how good sledge is at diving.
I apologise for that. I had to cut it short and have dinner. Its easy to ask questions and it takes more effort to provide a well thought of answer. Anything less and people start nitpicking on every different variable possible on the very chance they get as you had done so with my slipshot post. So now I have to make myself clear the first time and I'm on holidays. Well prepare for a wall of text.
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1:02 attack
1:26 retreat
2:22 attack
2:50 retreat
3:20 hit some nerd who tries to fight my team
3:46 attack
3:58 die
this was on a bot with:
22 wlk
18 tgh
no CV/clearance
no super armor on it's melee
If you "melee pros" can't do the same shit on sledge, elisa gland, eris, sylvia, lux legion, brave axer, or whatever other bullshit you play, then you're shit. Further reason why I have 0 respect for melee players.
Exactly, especially in the instance of having a healer on your team, although to do so you would need to buff up your walk and buff up hp to be able to run back and forth easier you just don't need to die. Nowadays untuned 400 hp bots just isn't enough if you're stunlocked which is why hp is important just as much as mobility for melees. My Sledge sits around 500hp and is untuned other than having 40 walk.The reason you stay in the enemy team until your death isn't because it's impossible to retreat, it's because you want more easy score from doing melee damage.
Or if you're going to die anyway with no healers. I do the very same thing as you do when there are 'effective' healers, I go back and heal."
I already addressed this refering to your perfect play video, it with that Its easily possible to 1000 - 1500 dmg and if you are lucky, not die if you play properly with no healer and you will easily survive with a healer ---> (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwKEoJ1-Jps) I did not say you have to die. You will most likely die anyway when you 'Don't' have a healer."
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- Winty wrote:
- You don't play what you are typing. I see people just dive in repeatedly trying to play 1v10 at all times. This isn't intelligent play, this is simply farming score. I posted two videos. One was LITERALLY doing what I see others do, where I just run forward and ignore everything else. I get top 5, cost my team 7.5k BP, and cause my team to lose. This is not "rushing intelligently." I used a shitty melee, a gunner land, and an air to do this. I see people do the same thing on their top tier dive bots. You know what they do? They get the same cost and cost more BP than me.
Now thats an assumption that I don't play what I'm typing.
Lemme illustrate a typical instance of me playing Sledge with the same map in your video >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGds9Id8MX8
With an 'effective' healer
1. Rush the left or right side higher ground.
2. Harass and deny that area with pump zooka any airs that come by the side.
3. Airs move to different spot. Arts and lands meet up at their PS.
4. Proceed to head into enemy spawn area and backdoor anybody too slow or just spawned in particular, tunnel airs and arts.
5. When the melees arrive, boost step away to the enemy P.S. where there will be art support and the weakened air units if I weakened them severely and they're looking for heals.
6. Make sure they don't heal. Damage their arts as much as possible and return for heals if left with 1/4 hp.
7. Heal back to full hp, rush back in from the top at the left or right side. Boost step into PS and AOE people trying to heal.
8. If no one is at PS, rush to the spawn area or that cove where they usually heal and finish off the low hps and make a distraction for more frontline to attack their spawns area after which you would have a chain of enemies losing 2-3 units waiting to respawn while you pick off the reduced enemy strength eventually forming a death and respawn chain with reduced numbers with your teammates in full force at their spawn area.
This is just an illustration of an ideal scenario. In one thats not I'll test the waters, still rushing the PS and escape for heals and try something else. Obviously you can't expect it to succeed 100% of the time. If it doesn't work I won't follow through and start tunnelling air threats.
Anyway its up to you to decide whether I do that or not, I can't force you to believe what you don't believe and I respect that.
- Winty wrote:
- I posted another video of me playing a shitty melee bot and diving, leaving, and living in order to dive again.
THIS is playing intelligently.
THIS is what you should be doing.
You talk about how sledge can get out of these situations - they why can't you NOT DIE?
because you're too busy trying to get MAX SCORE.
Don't pretend it's playing intelligently. It's not. It's straight scorefarming. That's all your doing. That's why you play 3 melee bots.
And I 100% agree with your video and I also do the same.
Look you can only make assumptions and believe what you want to believe. I quite rarely spam 3 melee bots. On occasions, I would do it just for fun. I have seen you spam 3 melee bots somewhat at the range of 1300 to 1400 costs, judging from the way you post builds and talk about hp as meta you've definitely tuned them in the most efficient manner 'to not die' realising that untuned melee junk doesn't stand a chance. I however play for fun and was too lazy to farm or tune until recently.
Also I don't spam 3 melee bots because I always have an Alpha art Alba on standby to deal with the OP anti homing monicas and Crimrose FCs. HECK anti bullet/beam cancelling alpha arts are OP as well thats why I don't mind if the other team has a Resha to bypass those weapon cancellors. Meta has turned into fighting OP with OP which is pretty sad.
Times I spam melees is when I do realise the opposing art wall is so great that its costing the game and I have to JetBS tunnel those arts (and healer) that have a healer/support and
we don't. Quite simply a do or die situation which we die anyway. Heal/Support in the right team is OP, you can't not rush when you don't have healers of your own. Anyway winning isn't everything, you can just do your best in a given situation.
Its your assumption that I don't play intelligently but after explaining you still don't think its right I don't mind you correcting me, I will change if its reasonable, I am open minded. Its up to you to spectate and see for yourself, just don't do it when I'm not playing seriously and take it out of context, I don't always want to play to win and go all out Nowadays people are hellbent to criticise way more than praising or respectfully disagreeing. Pretty much a toxic environment for discussion.
Lol can't NOT DIE? I play exactly as you have explained when theres an effective healer which pretty much guarantees having a lessor chance of not dying. The times when I do die regardless is when I'm getting slowed, getting attacked while accidentally blast tackling with powerless debuff or winberl thorn/shockzook locked if I don't get the blast tackle beforehand and thats because I did not tune my junk with clearance. If you were caught in the same situation you will die regardless. If the opposing team is stacked and you are are the only carry and the biggest threat, you will get tunnelled. You will die no matter how much you contribute. This is what I mean by not to
abhor death. The other side has lots of
airs, your side has a lot of
lands,
type disadvantage.
You have no healer. You're definitely
not getting healed, your
team mates are weakening while trying to
cover your ass while you item farm and spam '
MEDIC' like a fool. In this situation you may as well help out and die, respawn with full hp and get back to fighting in full force. This is what people don't see when they try to stay alive. They freak out about dying and being score conscious at the cost of their fighting strength.
Complaining about costs and feeding in this instance is just pure lunacy when people brag about the unfortunate side having no choice but to feed due to
overwhelming odds or a
disadvantage. In all honesty, it lacks class and this has been my main contention ever since my first post and my other post
aimed at Mie if you read carefully. At least when you know that you're going to die anyway and understand the situation carefully, you contribute positively to the team and have more chance of winning than people covering your ass while you inconsiderately farm heals.
Sledgehiem and rushing is just diverging from what I was saying but sure we can still talk about that.
Tuning is also a substantial factor to surviving and you cannot deny that it isn't.
I've already seen a huge difference in quality play and survivability after I've
fully tuned my Eris. Here is proof (this is within the very first day of crashtesting it without my brother lagging me again and getting my hit registering):
https://i.servimg.com/u/f56/18/50/52/69/proff10.jpg
https://i.servimg.com/u/f56/18/50/52/69/screen11.jpg
Normally under this same scenario I would never have lasted this long and killed this many with an untuned Eris without a healer.
Reason why I didn't do so beforehand was to give me an excuse to use it more often and not feel guilty about it but people ended up sniggering when I died either with their own tuned melee or CV Ivis and giving me crap. This prompted me to tune my Eris. This is obvious but I'm just going to state this clearly. Take a 450 hp stock Eris with walk gear vs a fully tuned 700 hp Eris and I don't even have to tell you the outcome. Sure one might cost higher but the other has more survivability to be used more effectively and more chance to 'not die'.
You can't not tune melees and
expect to be effective, they take alot of hits from having to close in and having to get out at the expense of killing effectively at close range. Sledge isn't even tuned, but sure I will make a build for it and perfect tune (though I'm out of mats) just like I did for Eris if you want to see its full potential with increased survivability
ONLY THEN you are allowed to make a perfect comparison, even so its definitely not invincible, Glint Strike Eris is a hard counter to Sledgeheims, part of the game mechanics, there are counters to everything, except for some lucky ones having just 1 or maybe 2.
Anyway not all 'diving' go perfectly well, its high risk high return. You cannot expect to not die and have an ideal situation all the time, you can only try your best to avoid it.
If rushing doesn't work out the first time or you've checked the other team's commandos beforehand knowing that it wouldn't workout, you stop and change tactics, if you think there is an opportunity, you do it again. Or even you don't rush the very start and rush when you spot an opportunity to do so when their group healing to break their healing bit and pick off low hps. You could even call that 'trying to max out scores' but 'you could also call that denying heals to deny their frontline support'. I won't deny that there are people who play to max out their scores but I'm definitely not one of them. To place the same label on the many different motives is flawed reasoning. You will rack up scores no matter which way you're playing, in reality it doesn't mean what is actually happening because the battlefield is situational, you can't account for everything but you have to change for it.
- Winty wrote:
- bounty system. Each time he dies he's dying at 1.5x his actual cost, if not more, and it is NOT shown in the endgame stats.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwKEoJ1-Jps
i rush in EXACTLY the way you are describing in this video, and I'm pretty much the reason why my team lost.
I get 6k cost at the end.
Here are the BP costs of my deaths:
1000
1300
1900
1800
1600
If you do the math, I end up costing my team 7.6k BP. That's a fair amount more than the 6k displayed. It would be even higher if I ran pure melee due to melee inflating score even more. In the video I have ONE melee, and my first death is less than 100% of my actual cost(because it's a weak melee and not one of the BIG DEEPS things that "melee pros" like to play.)
This is why people dislike people who get high costs as well as high ranks. It's because if their team lost, it's probably their fault for costing the team around 8k BP despite only have 5k cost. 1.3k cost melee bots rush in, get 3 stars, and then blow up for 2k BP. You do this 3 times, and you have 4k cost but you lost 6k BP.
As I said I know of this cost system and I wholehearted agree with you. However, I don't rush when I have low health and 3stars when we have little BP left and I don't rush exactly the same way you demonstrated in the video, you got to stop assuming I like to do foolish things.
Your video is an extreme version of what would do in the given situation however the first part of your video when you're wind tunnel rushing with your luto is pretty right on the ball, I do exactly that.
At 0:39 as soon as I spot that Trizelion I would have retreated and blast tackled out because of that sword stun projectile and Electric debuff. At 0:42 I would blast tackle that Akane to the ground and fire a few shots then head back to their PS blast tackle their art if they were still there, go round the other side.
By that time in an ideal situation I'd have reinforcements and I'll run back if I took too much damage or continue to the other side and spot for item farmers and blast deny the trees and them as well. If I'm lucky I get a healthpack and a bullet item. Rush up that same spawn point at 0:39 from the opposite side and cause damage a few times, if I had enough HP I would continue down and attack more arts or healers PS camping. If I don't I wind tunnel out get healed or farm abit more if there are no healers.
At this stage is when 'if' I don't have a healer and if I don't get my heals I will start farming and if it takes too long and the frontline is suffering theres no choice. I rush back in and suicide if I have to. Grab another rush bot in my commando this time sticking more with the team or rushing in for the low hps or art support for pesky airs and take down the weakened team.
Again apologies for the long wall of text. But you demanded I reply to everything and I'm giving it to you.
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