how do I into Momiji

So how's Ninja Run now? Is it a cart worth prioritizing anything over? (For example the second Crimson Arts cart)

Any solid Momiji builds of both routes?

EDIT: Flare route, Grappler v Gladiator?

Miko Miko Spark wrote:

So how's Ninja Run now? Is it a cart worth prioritizing anything over? (For example the second Crimson Arts cart)

Any solid Momiji builds of both routes?

EDIT: Flare route, Grappler v Gladiator?

From what I've seen, you will want every Zero Cart Momiji can use. If there's anything you'll want to prioritize Ninja Run over, it's Boost Run depending on if you want invisibility or speed.

You probably neither need Grappler or Gladiator, since the kunai buff increases both power and range. That could just be me though.

I've been eking out a few builds, mostly under the premise that Momiji needs the max WLK breakpoint (36) at least. These are only my ideas, so make of them what you will (note that the fifth listed Zero Cart doesn't actually exist in the game, so it can be safely ignored in CosmiCalc):


Flare Build:

Spoiler:

Blitz Build:

Spoiler:

SL the Pyro wrote:

If there's anything you'll want to prioritize Ninja Run over, it's Boost Run depending on if you want invisibility or speed.

I've been eking out a few builds, mostly under the premise that Momiji needs the max WLK breakpoint (36) at least. These are only my ideas, so make of them what you will (note that the fifth listed Zero Cart doesn't actually exist in the game, so it can be safely ignored in CosmiCalc):

Flare Build:

Spoiler:

Uh, people with Broad Radar (Most if not everyone) can see you under the radar if you have Stealth System. So I wouldn't suggest her to use it.

What I see here is also a lack of TGH, her 9 TGH makes her too fragile and I'd bump it up to 12 myself. Not to mention the magical breakpoint 12 combos with Crimson Veil nicely, 9 TGH makes CV a crutch she must depend on in sticky situations.

But about the WLK thing, you make a good point about it, so you should try to reach for the 36 WLK more than trying to reach the max STR?

These are my builds: (Flare only Q.Q)

40 STR/32 WLK:

36 STR/36 WLK:

---

Here's a huge question I've wanted to ask, Stun Regain is a staple when using CV, but in Momiji's case her Ninja Run is also just as useful. I made these builds prior to the Ninja Run buff, but now I'm considering taking off Stun Regain for it.
So which one would be best? Stun Regain or Ninja Run?

SL the Pyro wrote:

From what I've seen, you will want every Zero Cart Momiji can use.

I disagree.
For Momiji's Blitz route (in which I affectionately refer to as "Hurricane Style"), she has the ZERO cart "Windrunner".
While it might prove useful in getting over obstacles, I don't see how it is useful in combat.
Then again, you can take it solely because of it's cost.

EDIT: I suppose the usefulness of that cartridge depends on the build you're using.

How's this build:

resireth wrote:

SL the Pyro wrote:

From what I've seen, you will want every Zero Cart Momiji can use.

I disagree.
For Momiji's Blitz route (in which I affectionately refer to as "Hurricane Style"), she has the ZERO cart "Windrunner".
While it might prove useful in getting over obstacles, I don't see how it is useful in combat.
Then again, you can take it solely because of it's cost.

Flame Please:

It actually would. I haven't proven it yet since I don't have Momiji, but I think you can use Windrunner after doing a shortboost. Paired with Quick Land (If she has one), you can really mess up those aiming at you.

Spoiler:

I'm not entirely sure why people are making melee-oriented flame path builds. Her flame melee is not worth maining. It's decent enough untuned to serve it's purpose as a last resort and a way to hound arts if you get in range.

Either way, this build is really fun. Ninja Run combined with Stealth System equates to a bot you can't lock onto (and therefor can't see on radar), only appearing long enough to throw a fireball into your face. The concept is somewhat hurt by Broad Radar, but not being able to lock onto her really makes her hard to deal with all the same.

EDIT: It's super early and I'm sick, forgot High Run Beta existed

Spoiler:

High Capa + 2x Clearance if you don't mind the cost.

G.Capa + 2x C.Veil, but she ends up with a lot lower TGH (9-10)

Anyone else noticed low dps in the blitz melee?
Seems the 27 force is split between the two slashes of her combo. Sometimes I see 21 and 17 dmg instead of 38 dmg with one right click.

/dev/random wrote:

Anyone else noticed low dps in the blitz melee?
Seems the 27 force is split between the two slashes of her combo. Sometimes I see 21 and 17 dmg instead of 38 dmg with one right click.

I fired off a ticket to CyberStep about that. I don't remember seeing anything like that in any other attack in the game - not even on the bots who use the same attack style, like Ouka and Aila - and I doubt CyberStep would code an entirely new damage formula just for one attack. More that likely the Force is mislabeled or they didn't code the damage to match it.

Trill wrote:

I'm not entirely sure why people are making melee-oriented flame path builds. Her flame melee is not worth maining. It's decent enough untuned to serve it's purpose as a last resort and a way to hound arts if you get in range.

Either way, this build is really fun. Ninja Run combined with Stealth System equates to a bot you can't lock onto (and therefor can't see on radar), only appearing long enough to throw a fireball into your face. The concept is somewhat hurt by Broad Radar, but not being able to lock onto her really makes her hard to deal with all the same.

This. The whole point of Momiji is to weaken with ranged attacks and destroy with melee, and the Flare melee combo needs buffs a lot less than Scarlet Needle. Besides, what happens if you get Shocked? Suddenly you'll be happy to have that pseudo-E.V.E. Shot. The Flare path has all its attacks, including ranged attacks, use the STR stat for a reason.

The problem with Ninja Run is that if they lock onto you before you go into it, they can stay locked on. You think the enemies are just smartly following your wind trail when really they're following the giant red crosshair (I also sent this in the bug report). Still, if you're good with it and know to hide yourself after being locked onto, you'll only lose a few seconds before you can sneak up on them again. Remember: Momiji is a ninja, she's not supposed to fight head-on.

SL the Pyro wrote:

/dev/random wrote:

Anyone else noticed low dps in the blitz melee?
Seems the 27 force is split between the two slashes of her combo. Sometimes I see 21 and 17 dmg instead of 38 dmg with one right click.

I fired off a ticket to CyberStep about that. I don't remember seeing anything like that in any other attack in the game

I'm having a hard time remembering specific examples other than Butterflea BS and Seraph FC Nova, but lots of these sorts of attacks do exist.

SL the Pyro wrote:

/dev/random wrote:

Anyone else noticed low dps in the blitz melee?
Seems the 27 force is split between the two slashes of her combo. Sometimes I see 21 and 17 dmg instead of 38 dmg with one right click.

I fired off a ticket to CyberStep about that. I don't remember seeing anything like that in any other attack in the game - not even on the bots who use the same attack style, like Ouka and Aila - and I doubt CyberStep would code an entirely new damage formula just for one attack. More that likely the Force is mislabeled or they didn't code the damage to match it.

Trill wrote:

I'm not entirely sure why people are making melee-oriented flame path builds. Her flame melee is not worth maining. It's decent enough untuned to serve it's purpose as a last resort and a way to hound arts if you get in range.

Either way, this build is really fun. Ninja Run combined with Stealth System equates to a bot you can't lock onto (and therefor can't see on radar), only appearing long enough to throw a fireball into your face. The concept is somewhat hurt by Broad Radar, but not being able to lock onto her really makes her hard to deal with all the same.

This. The whole point of Momiji is to weaken with ranged attacks and destroy with melee, and the Flare melee combo needs buffs a lot less than Scarlet Needle. Besides, what happens if you get Shocked? Suddenly you'll be happy to have that pseudo-E.V.E. Shot. The Flare path has all its attacks, including ranged attacks, use the STR stat for a reason.

The problem with Ninja Run is that if they lock onto you before you go into it, they can stay locked on. You think the enemies are just smartly following your wind trail when really they're following the giant red crosshair (I also sent this in the bug report). Still, if you're good with it and know to hide yourself after being locked onto, you'll only lose a few seconds before you can sneak up on them again. Remember: Momiji is a ninja, she's not supposed to fight head-on.

I'm pretty sure they fixed this. Played against a friend's Momiji, and even though you still maintain a lock (my homing shots still homed into them even though they were invisible), there's no red crosshair. Homing shots like above mentioned are hardly affected, but non-homing robots really have issues hitting you all the same.

Suguri wrote:

SL the Pyro wrote:

/dev/random wrote:

Anyone else noticed low dps in the blitz melee?
Seems the 27 force is split between the two slashes of her combo. Sometimes I see 21 and 17 dmg instead of 38 dmg with one right click.

I fired off a ticket to CyberStep about that. I don't remember seeing anything like that in any other attack in the game

I'm having a hard time remembering specific examples other than Butterflea BS and Seraph FC Nova, but lots of these sorts of attacks do exist.

Frenzy Chainsaw is also like this, as well.

As for the lockon with Ninja Run, it's the same as with Kagetama's Shadow Step. They don't see you or the cross-hair, but they still hold a lock and their aim is adjusted to accomodate. But unless you're able to watch your gun / the wind properly, then you won't be able to compensate for the movement properly (especially if they're doing something other than an obvious strafe). Tack on Stealth System, and so if your opponent doesn't have Broad Radar, then it really is a bit annoying to pinpoint.

..mmm.. if Im not wrong the wind melee is like Elisa or Aila... 1 click, 2 or more slash type attacks where 2nd..3rd...4th... damage is reduced a lot.... then looooow DPS

At begining I tough Eris would be the same, but that sword are to strong no damage reduction is noticed.

Update
This is my personal answer to the question about to choose fire vs wind...

Wind
Pro:
The range attack will do nice damage and doesn't have charge time.. mega long combo, she is just perfect for slow tunes.
Cons:
Her capa and the need to tune for Tec, is hard, you will have tunning issues because you can not do High Beta tunes. then lack of capa. (unles you remove some cart and add another capa or tune the lgs for Capa <- not cheap)

Fire:
Good AOE melee attack, heavy damage, the buff of the sword is just wow. Its like a good moe version of the Vanguard Fencer.
Cons:
All her range attacks needs charge time. The last jump she does at the end of the combo is a problem (it cancels right click spam!)

I like Fire more vs Wind because I don't need range weapons, has been melee for too much time, also I don't have dependency in slow tunes, and the best of all, she is str based then the issues with capa will not be so big problem. (but I don't have plans to tune any one of the new zeroes)

JadeCicada wrote:

Suguri wrote:

I'm having a hard time remembering specific examples other than Butterflea BS and Seraph FC Nova, but lots of these sorts of attacks do exist.

Frenzy Chainsaw is also like this, as well.

As for the lockon with Ninja Run, it's the same as with Kagetama's Shadow Step. They don't see you or the cross-hair, but they still hold a lock and their aim is adjusted to accomodate. But unless you're able to watch your gun / the wind properly, then you won't be able to compensate for the movement properly (especially if they're doing something other than an obvious strafe). Tack on Stealth System, and so if your opponent doesn't have Broad Radar, then it really is a bit annoying to pinpoint.

Ah, I didn't know any of this. The only multi-hit-melee bot I have like that is Aila (Ouka doesn't count, her combo segments only consist of one swing each), and her combo starts with one-hit segments, so you might not even notice if the damage is divided due to natural TGH falloff; I don't have a Frenzy Chainsaw either. And none of the Momijis I've fought have had Ninja Run (I can't fathom why), so I've had no experience with following an invisible one and assumed "lock-on" meant crosshair and all.

Still, locking onto an enemy you can barely see without the crosshair has to be disorienting/frustrating.


Also, don't mind me, I'm just updating my builds based on what I'm seeing here:

Flare Build:

Blitz Build:

I have a question...

the Quick land will help the Fire version to do a fast and better landing after the combo? that delay is killing me.

Blitz build needs more fly. Gotta go fast.

No really, why is the gunner build with such high Boost run tier?
Just pick on a lonely target and shoot it to death, since they won't be able to attack you back.

Not sure if mentioned already, but her damage is weird ._.

Examples with tests i did:
Against rouche(art), similar damage on monica(art)
front:47
back:30

Against an air(vector eagle i think it was)
front:38
back:52

Purple-teir is obnoxiously high. Try redteir ( 40/8 ) or so.

I decided to pack speed and evasion on the Blitz build because she doesn't have the stealth capabilities of the Flare build (I thought the power-oriented one would benefit more from it, that and tuning STR, WLK and FLY on the same bot is murderously hard). Also, I have to allow for other stats and the carts, so I settled for just enough to hit the top Boost Run tier. It's even better because Windrunner uses WLK now.

And why top tier Boost Run? Well, why not? If she's going to be a shuriken-slinging speedster, then I might as well pull out all the stops. To quote the Mythbusters: if it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing.

Tashunu wrote:

Not sure if mentioned already, but her damage is weird ._.

Examples with tests i did:
Against rouche(art), similar damage on monica(art)
front:47
back:30

Against an air(vector eagle i think it was)
front:38
back:52

I assume you're talking about Scarlet Needle (the fireball). Its damage calculation is a mixture of Shell and Melee.

As someone who's used purple and red teir, I can safely say red teir was definately more than neccisary. Purple teir requires seriously hurting stats more than red teir even.

Then, Capa Tune for Wind Momiji is a must :V?

zerocl wrote:

Then, Capa Tune for Wind Momiji is a must :V?

Only if you're going full-gotta-go-fast-retard while putting on weapon tunes like I am. Capa tunes certainly aren't a necessity depending on what you want to do, your build is your build.

Actually, that was damage with momiji's wind route melee, damage calculate from one right click and not including the dirks at the melee stop at the end. I also mean the damage done on the back is weird

so fire route is STR? does this affect the main AM fireball? or is it just the melee? just want to make sure before tune's

Tashunu wrote:

Actually, that was damage with momiji's wind route melee, damage calculate from one right click and not including the dirks at the melee stop at the end. I also mean the damage done on the back is weird

Huh. Why is that attack so weird? Unless the combo has some bizarre shell/blast typing or you were hitting it in a grazing fashion (which shouldn't effect anything), I'm afraid I don't know what to tell you.

heerokosmos wrote:

so fire route is STR? does this affect the main AM fireball? or is it just the melee? just want to make sure before tune's

Flare route is all STR. Blitz route is all TEC.

Tashunu wrote:

Actually, that was damage with momiji's wind route melee, damage calculate from one right click and not including the dirks at the melee stop at the end. I also mean the damage done on the back is weird

is it just me or Momiji blitz route is so nerf she cant even get a good stat without grate capa tune? coz of the tech+run combination did CS make a mistake here? on the balancing? or they want her to turn like sup bot? that dont even have really good support skills....