Sieg & Other build revisions

1. Sieg. This guy sucks how do i use him help. I currently have 2x Dugdriver AM, 32 TEC, and 34 FLY. Lv 6. 2x EIW. And I don't hit a thing. c: (btw how many speed tunes should go on Dugdriver AM?)

2. When/If I ever get Orin I want to do a completely offensive build. Revise for anything that could be improved pl0x.

plz gib free orin:

3. Removed since I'm not getting any help on it anyway. Just don't even bother bringing it up anymore.

4. Last one I feel like remembering to ask about. PUMP ZOOK AMA. I really have no idea what I'm doing so I just kind of gave up on the stat inefficiencies and stuff.

i tried.:

don't include accele roll plz. what kind of rich fag do you take me for. and wow i will never be able to get three tunes, especially a para tune, done on that zook

Renny would be possible if you drop Quick Jump, but that would really affect the performance of hopping, wouldn't it.

I unno. I'm slappin random shit together.:

1> From what I've heard from Kobrakai, his core wep is strictly anti-air. Can't do crap against grounded units. He was trying an Alba HD build (to fend off LNDs!).

If you are going to go with alpha, you would do well to use Psycho Formula HD2/3 to lead the rest of your weapons. If you're going alpha, you don't really need speed tunes on duggy AMs as that's 80 extra cost you could use tuning tec/fly/etc. You'd be crutching off dakka stunning power from a distance.

3> I wouldn't alpha with a Renny. You could do the Piercegun idea, sure. Accel Saber would do it better though :< (Renny is cute, though)

4>

skeleton build:

Not trying to single you out AKB, but why does everyone keep saying Renny alpha is bad? She's not bad at all. Other cores do everything she can do better, yes. But that doesn't make her bad. I'm just tired of people telling me that land alphas suck/Renny sucks when they haven't even tried them (with ~40 TEC ofc).

But it's OK because I have 2 Rennys (and Acro) anyway. I can just make one without Clearance and get 30 or so WLK + Piercegun on her.

MagicPotatoplz wrote:

Not trying to single you out AKB, but why does everyone keep saying Renny alpha is bad?...Other cores do everything she can do better

That's why. Sure she works, but she's horribly cost inefficient and lacks main weapon BD/HD access, you could do the same thing a million times better on an accel saber or synoris, for example.

rennys selling point is her midgame swap of tech and strengh as well as having a moderate effective melee (i liked the old one better, but yeah) and, while in tech mode, the heavily underated tripple backwhirl
from all the upgrades i gave to my year old renny (its my favorite bot, i always tried to make her keep up with the meta somehow) i am currently rather happy about how the bot works currently (even though i liked the single melee jump more :< ) but i also remade the build i had from scratch (i started with alpha mid cost weaponry, switched to alpha low cost weaponry and am currently running a single very high cost weapon, all builds featured 40 tech 36 walk

personally i think you could propably still make a alphastriking renny work but it will not work as well with her other features as a single weapon build will
utility is rennys strong point, if you want to ignore what the bot offers, your better of with another bot

So somehow I never actually read the OP of this thread and just read the replies. V:

1. The core is incapable of hitting grounded targets, but pretty reliable (and painful) against flying targets. Should be a given since they're AA missiles, but due to the firing pattern it's even more true with him. As for your build not hitting anything - this is why you don't make full-homing alphas :V Sub one arm out for a blast/middle/double/regular bazooka so you have something manually aimed.

4.

90 capa left for weapon tunes, more tec/fly/hp, accele roll, w/e:

Suguri wrote:

this is why you don't make full-homing alphas :V

Yeah I realized that last night, lol. INT is way too high with just 2x Dug arms + core weapon, and my other main problem I see with it is my poor mobility. Meaning, I don't have hop carts + MB. and 50% of the airs have anti-homing wings


@Aurum:
>personally i think you could propably still make a alphastriking renny work but it will not work as well with her other features as a single weapon build will

That's my point. It DOES still work. And yes, I have tried both, but 1) I'm plain sick of single piercegun hoppers, it's just horribly generic and boring nowadays, and 2) I actually found it worked better than a "single weapon build." Maybe I should have pointed out that I have used Renny plenty of times in 3 or 4 different ways, I'm not new to her by any means, I was mostly just looking to see if anyone could change up the weapons while maintaining good stats or could improve it in anyway. Thanks though.

not using a piercegun while still only using one weapon didnt even cross your mind?

anyways since you are opposed to horribly generic builds id suggest not building a hopping renny, its what i played most of the time and it did work fine (and gives you more options on your cards, obviously)

Aurum_Sol wrote:

not using a piercegun while still only using one weapon didnt even cross your mind?

It did, Piercegun was just an example of something I could use, of course. But I have plenty of generic hoppers already. Alpha's more fun.

Aurum_Sol wrote:

anyways since you are opposed to horribly generic builds id suggest not building a hopping renny, its what i played most of the time and it did work fine (and gives you more options on your cards, obviously)

Way to jump to conclusions. Never did I say any of that, I just meant that I'm focused on playing alpha Renny and I was not looking for "how 2 renny" advice. One weapon on her works fine. It's just not what I was looking for.

Poorfag build:

Spoiler:

Do what you want with the rest of the build, btw you can sub in handy zook if you dont have blast and have more capa. Again this is a poorfag build, highly not recommended but I posted this since one of my peeps is doing the same thing you are.

The carts is my personal preference based on the better build I have in jp, and I can't live without Broad (Bored) Radar. Again Sieg is Anti-Air bot so be smart.

Rt Build (meh this one I copy pasted from mine in jp, do what you will with it)

Spoiler:

Requires capa tuning. I hate going dumb double rouche ams, one is enough to negate shots for me.

I don't like using moe moe supports. (much anyways)

As for the Renny Alpha Lop, uhhh I remember Hana using Custom mag/cross shooter/handy magnum and x2 pierce amjs and renny ams. Stats is 40 tec / 36 wlk with enough capa to interchange between weapons
(Since she x 3 Great capa on renny, its still in the garage but uhhh figure out for yourself)

Once again, Renny Lop is horrible for MB. Plus manual aiming doesn't suit most idiots in EN here. (exceptions of course)
Hana basically had the same reasoning as you did, "its fun".

As for the Amateus its obvious what you should do and people here already posted builds for it.

Spoiler:

XiaoFu wrote:

Do what you want with the rest of the build, btw you can sub in handy zook if you dont have blast and have more capa. Again this is a poorfag build, highly not recommended but I posted this since one of my peeps is doing the same thing you are.

I think I nitpick about this in nearly every amateus thread but: Does everyone just completely forget about regular Bazooka? Better tracking, larger shell, more stun, more force, and it's still quite cheap.

Dugdriver AM being an Rt gara part doesn't really make it a poorfag build, either.

Suguri wrote:

XiaoFu wrote:

Do what you want with the rest of the build, btw you can sub in handy zook if you dont have blast and have more capa. Again this is a poorfag build, highly not recommended but I posted this since one of my peeps is doing the same thing you are.

I think I nitpick about this in nearly every amateus thread but: Does everyone just completely forget about regular Bazooka? Better tracking, larger shell, more stun, more force, and it's still quite cheap.

Dugdriver AM being an Rt gara part doesn't really make it a poorfag build, either.

Good point but, I built that one based on since potatos has dugdriver ams, and my peep pulled a dugdriver am from a ro cube recently and wonder what to do with it.

Welp, apparently Ro cubes are gay in giving away bots like dugdriver and pacifars (along with UC shit).

And what you said about bazooka being better is true but, I like my 3s and less stat reduction (personal preference again).

Edit: oh wait thats why I use handy zook more. People here in this server like running into my Bazooka or Large bazooka shots.

Suguri wrote:

I think I nitpick about this in nearly every amateus thread but: Does everyone just completely forget about regular Bazooka? Better tracking, larger shell, more stun, more force, and it's still quite cheap.

My qualm with Bazooka is the stat penalties and how it is slightly more difficult to obtain a 2s/3s version compared to that of Handy Bazooka.

EDIT: XiaoFu beat me to it and then some. I should try making a build with Bazookas one day, though.

+40 cost, -2 wlk, -2 fly in total is pretty expensive for what you are trading it for.

XiaoFu wrote:

Once again, Renny Lop is horrible for MB. Plus manual aiming doesn't suit most idiots in EN here. (exceptions of course)
Hana basically had the same reasoning as you did, "its fun".

Sort of, yes, MB Renny is the most fun way I've played her.
And yes, for the last time, I KNOW there are better cores for MB lands, I HAVE fully tuned alpha Synoris. Stop pointing it out. I'm done arguing about things I didn't ask for. At least iKray actually helped with what I asked for help on, and thanks for adding more to the post than just "renny sucks use accel saber or a more cost-efficient mb land." (though I already knew about Hana's Renny lol)

As for the others I'll probably get back to asking/discussing once I actually get around to leveling/tuning them... mostly just leveling atm. And I think I might just drop the Clearance tunes on Orin for more TEC/High Air Force instead of GRapid Beta.





If I ever even get her. :<

2x renny am + 2xdouble gun(with force tunes) 1/40/32-36/1/11+

major downside is ammo but when i ran that setup the games where much longer than our current 5 minute meta so its not a big issue anymore
enjoy heavy burst damage

Been thinking about that Orin since you posted it. I've wanted one myself, and while I've not lucked myself to get one when she came out, a friend of mine has a blonde one that I just kinda snuck in to take some snapshots and run some thoughts on what I'd been nagging myself to think on about your build.

The High Shooter tune is the only curious part of the build for me. I draw some comparison with Explosive Fire to a Handy Bazooka, because they're in the same rough speed category (260-300 base) and Explosive Fire's pure Blast nature makes it that much more comparable to those than other gun types. I've got some pictures below less to prove a point, more to just establish baseline familiarity with the weapon itself for the discussion. I'm not suggesting to adopt the same playstyle as, say a Zook-hopper Accel Saber. Just that it's the most comparable weapon type for Explosive Fire in practice.

The projectile size shots are a side view because that's the easiest way to get a clear shot where I'm certain they're at the same "size" - firing away from the camera means if I time the distance wrong, size difference will be exaggerated. Also, muzzle smoke from the bazooka makes the picture look silly. The Explosive Fire is spherical, though, while the bazooka's widest size is still clear to see in the side view, since it is circular in that dimension.

Hitbox of Projectile and Explosion Comparison:

Projectile size is pretty similar, smaller but still much closer to a Handy Zook than, say, a Mini or Micro Zook. It's a decent projectile, good for hitting things. Explosion is smaller, but based on the nature of the projectile, it's not like we're aiming to be hitting huge areas. For the curious, a Micro Zook has about the same explosion hitbox.

Base projectile speed of 260 puts you at the same speed as a Large Bazooka - slower than a Handy, but not by an amount that matters. Tuned at your choices, you hit 351 speed. Which brings me back to the High Shooter. The base range of Explosive Fire is 320, equal to both a Titan Bazooka and a Victorl AM3. Other bazookas largely are in the 260-ish range, but both of those weapons have advantages that Explosive Fire doesn't. Titan Zook has a shell size as large as Orin herself, while Victorl AM3 has a base speed of 340 prior to tuning.

The extra 32 range you get by going for High Shooter feels like wasted cost, is what I'm getting at. You already have pretty good range for your tuned speed - that extra halo you get doesn't feel like it'll provide enough benefit to warrant the significant cost. Thoughts on replacement options for the High Shooter.

• A single Force tune will push you up to 13 force. That's only really giving you an extra point of damage, but more importantly it gives you a healthy amount of extra capacity to get some more TEC in for even more damage. Great Force will bump you to 14 but I doubt the extra 20 cost is worth it. Also, taking the Force tune will help your damage more than just forgoing a third Weapon tune for more TEC tuning space.
  
• A High Rapid tune will get you the same target speed (351) for only 10 cost. But you'd have to dunk either 14 shots or 22 range (298 end). Again, this leaves fair capacity to squeeze in more TEC.
  
• A Great Rapid tune gets you more speed in the end, but costs 20 and has a more significant impact on your ammo or range. But, it's still a fancy idea to get more solid hits. 12 force might not be a lot, even when doubled against Airs, but going the extra bit to ensure each hit can help.
  
• A second High Air Force won't save you any cost, but it'd fit right into your build and give you an extra 20 ammo, which feels more serviceable than the 32 range. I'm not really fond of this direction, though.
  
• Can't really skip it, but Breaker is always an option. I don't think that it'll be the best use of your money, but hey, maybe we're missing out that Explosive Fire is a great breaking tool. Who knows.
  
• I don't know if Paralyze is an option - it feels sensible and helps assist the punch of the shot. But you'd have to meander your build to fit the cost.
  

You could stick with the High Shooter, if you felt that ring of range was worth it, but at least from my looking at the situation, it doesn't feel like it'd help a whole lot, whether you're shooting on the front lines or from the back lines. I think the extra capacity for switching to a much cheaper tune will help you a lot more for what you would want to be able to do with her.

I have no qualms with the rest of the build - you're topped off on both slots and capa, which is why you have so many vanilla Run tunes. You hit 35 WLK, you have as much TEC as you can feasibly fit. You don't have a lot of BS choices available without a major rehaul of the build - you need at least +2 WLK +2 FLY to match your mobility stats, which leaves Neon Neos (5 cost less but the TGH loss is meh and the BS as a whole is used by everyone else anyway), Pepo Pucci (Subtracts TEC instead of STR... yeah...), Volcanics (You could make it work but I'm not fond of it aesthetically), General Cape BS (I don't know what it looks like but I expect it to clash), and Persenachia BS (10 more cost for 1 more TEC? :/). So it works with Rone BS. Handy Magnum is both a good sidearm against any Blast Guard types while you're on the offensive (though Fire Wall is also good for that...) and is a better thing to kill trees and such than your main weapon.

It's a shame, really. Long Range would be a very nice buff for Orin, and she can even extend it... for everyone but herself. You'd need a Rone to properly get it (since running alongside a second Orin or an Orin-chan would be a bit weird), but if you did get it, it'd be pretty fancy for you. It'd also invalidate the need for the High Shooter. :3c

About the High Shooter. It's one of those tunes where I'd have to play her to see if it's worth it, in fact I wouldn't have even considered it over High Air Force if a friend that has an offensive Orin didn't want to 3x High Shooter tune his. But he likes to do silly things with this builds anyway.

I never really thought to compare it to any zooks. It's got naturally high Range and the bullet isn't even Handy Zook tier size, so I was comparing it more to Pepo Torte's Umbrella, but a "modded" version of it. 12 Force, 200 Ammo, low stun compared to Pepo's 20 Force, 120 Ammo, air-dropping stun. But now that I think about it, Orin's got 40 less Speed than Pepo, so what magic a High Shooter tune might do a Pepo isn't really going to have the same effect on Orin. ; _ ; Personally I'd probably do High Air Force. And I'm just dropping the Clearances and changing the High Cap to Cap if anything.
Really my original intention was to do 3x High Air Force, because with 260 ammo I could throw it around all match and not have ammo problems too often.

The Handy Mag is just for farming.

Not likely the change the BS, everything else besides Pepo's looks terrible, and Rone's has good stats for Orin.