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 Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D:

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Blizt
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Blizt

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Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: Empty
PostSubject: Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D:   Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: EmptyMon Apr 18, 2011 4:00 pm

Recently I'm planning to do some serious tuning for my Izuna, originally I used the CosmiCalc to make a plan for 40 FLY, but now I'm wondering if I really need to go that extreme to the maximum cap...

I have heard many examples of Air reaching 40 FLY, but is it really necessary? Is it worth all that costs?
So far several ppl have suggested me to go for 30, 35~38 FLY :/

Also another clanmate told me that if I have got enough FLY/speed, and have spare room left, tune TGH to 15 or above if I can, what's your view on this?
(some other ppl also said that if I can dodge ART's attack with 40 FLY, then why bother with TGH?)

Btw, when I first started out, ppl suggested me I should get 10 TGH as minimum, right now...mine's 8 :3


I will start tuning TEC when I'm done with those two...but ya I need some advice :3


Just for reference, below is my bot's part I'm using and the cartridges I'm planning to have at Lv 10:

Parts:

- Izuna Kamui BD5
- Izuna Kamui HD5
- Red Scarf (+5 capa)
- Adone LG
- Snow Vulture BS
- Victor AM
- Lily Rain AM
- Pulse Gun
- Izuna Kamui BS

*All parts except Red Scarf & Pulse Gun are 3 slots*


Cartridges:

- Raise Capacity x N (unknown yet)
- Quick Boost
- Quick Jump
- Stealth System
- Sniper Sight

*Also asking some questions regarding "Quick Land" and "Float Dash"...

Do Air need Quick Land that much? (I also got core weapon that let me get down instantly if I need to dodge/recharge boost)

And after I'm done with tuning, it's likely that my WLK is gonna be very low, so by then is there still a point for Float Dash??


I'd really appreciate any advice, especially those who have experience with high FLY or TGH on an Air bot Razz


Last edited by Blizt on Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:56 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Suguri
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Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: Empty
PostSubject: Re: Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D:   Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: EmptyMon Apr 18, 2011 4:38 pm

First thoughts:

  • Having 40 fly makes you as mobile as possible, which also makes you as tough to hit as possible, and also lets you get in and out ASAP for sneak attacks/retreats. Simply put, having more fly bolsters every aspect of your gameplay as an air, making it top priority.
  • Tuning tgh is a bad idea for anything. All alpha/beta tgh tunes lower fly, and you should rarely (if ever) use vanilla tunes. Swap parts if you need more tgh.
  • Tec should always be next on the priority list after fly.
  • 10 tgh is a good minimum to have, though I'm not sure if there's really much of a difference between 8 and 10.
  • Snow Vulture BS has a massive BS, is cost bloated, and its stats aren't even that great. Use Sword Wing, Brickgale, or Tengu BS.
  • Between Viktor AM and Pulse Gun, you only have beam weapons, both of which are suited to the same effective range. There isn't really any situation you'd use a pulse gun over Viktor AM either, beyond "no ammo left".

    I'll get back to you on build modifications in a moment.
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    Blizt
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    Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: Empty
    PostSubject: Re: Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D:   Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: EmptyMon Apr 18, 2011 5:12 pm

    I get how high FLY is always useful, my main concern is that between 30~40 FLY, is the difference that great that you can definitely feel the improvement of going 40? >.<

    As for my BS choice, I chose this because:
    - it looks cool (yes I know it makes my hitbox bigger, but it's sugar for my eyes XD)
    - 3 slots for more tuning
    - no sub weapon on it

    The last reason was the most important one to me...I had problem with switching between 4 sub weapons until I used the "E" function with it, I really don't wanna imagine how 5 weapons is gonna make me panic in certain tight situation.

    I have both Brickgale's BS, honestly, I'd gladly equip them if it weren't Izuna's core weapon (inferior than Brickgale's Stovl imo) or the sub weapon for Victor AM (totally useless to me, I only wanted the Beam Cannon).

    Also, compare to Sword Wing, Snow Vulture sacrifice 1 lost of FLY for 1 gain each of TEC and TGH, that's not too bad a trade for me, except it being 10 cost more.
    (Sword Wing & Tengu BS also look ugly to me LOL XD)

    Weapon choice wise, Victor AM's Beam Cannon let me able to deal both Lnd (beam) and Air (blast) quite nicely, only downfall imo is it only got 120 ammo so I can't spam it too much (can't raise much with tune up either, so I gave up on ammo increase)

    As for Pulse Gun, it's low cost, decent sized bullet, decent not too low dmg, good old stun effect, and massive ammo (600 I think?) for me to spam in chaos or my aim sucks lol.

    Other when I got no more ammo on Victor AM, situation I'd use a pulse gun over Viktor AM, one example would be when against ART, since Beam Cannon's beam/blast attributes both don't have an advantage over ART (and I can't really spam it, even though it's double the dmg of Pulse Gun), spamming Pulse Gun against them and stun them would seem a better choice to me.

    Depend on the situation, either that they got stun too much and can't shoot shit, or that it's not too effective, I still got my awesome Adone LG left to do some kicking that may turn the table around =]


    These were the thought I had in mind :3
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    reVelske
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    reVelske

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    Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: Empty
    PostSubject: Re: Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D:   Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: EmptyMon Apr 18, 2011 5:13 pm

    1. Ouch, Pulse Gun, good luck trying to kill anything with it. Replace it with a Limited Plasma, or if you really like eletric guns, try get a Paralyzer.

    2. Replace Izuna AMs with Tentrion AMs, DO IT.

    3. Sword Wing BS, Vulture BS, Tengu BS, Brickgale BS, Adone BS. Make your pick.

    4. I remember hearing about 12 being the minimum recommended TGH on JP boards with the JP folks, buuuut that's for CTF I think so don't bother, of course, it would be nice to hit that number I'm sure.

    5. 40 FLY if you have the slots/mats to spare, otherwise, 38 is perfectly fine too. With full boost gauge, 40 FLY beats 38 by a whole Froglander length, so... yeah, not that life-threatening.

    6. Always tune your TEC for the best Force breakpoint for all your weapons, use the comicalc to help you determine the best TEC to aim for.

    7. Meh, another frau-legged cheese. ¬_¬
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    Suguri
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    Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: Empty
    PostSubject: Re: Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D:   Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: EmptyMon Apr 18, 2011 5:24 pm

    @Blizt wrote:
    I get how high FLY is always useful, my main concern is that between 30~40 FLY, is the difference that great that you can definitely feel the improvement of going 40? >.<
    There's a very noticeable difference there, yes. Also, certain missiles and other homing weapons can be near-impossible to dodge at even 35 fly, but become (more) easily avoidable at 40. 40 fly is a universal recommendation for successful air play.

    @Blizt wrote:
    As for my BS choice, I chose this because:
    - it looks cool (yes I know it makes my hitbox bigger, but it's sugar for my eyes XD)
    - 3 slots for more tuning
    - no sub weapon on it

    The last reason was the most important one to me...I had problem with switching between 4 sub weapons until I used the "E" function with it, I really don't wanna imagine how 5 weapons is gonna make me panic in certain tight situation.

    I have both Brickgale's BS, honestly, I'd gladly equip them if it weren't Izuna's core weapon (inferior than Brickgale's Stovl imo) or the sub weapon for Victor AM (totally useless to me, I only wanted the Beam Cannon).

    Also, compare to Sword Wing, Snow Vulture sacrifice 1 lost of FLY for 1 gain each of TEC and TGH, that's not too bad a trade for me, except it being 10 cost more.
    (Sword Wing & Tengu BS also look ugly to me LOL XD)
    Only thing I really have to say here is: Vulture BS costs 10 less than Snow Wing BS with only -1 tgh. 1 tgh isn't worth 10 cost. Sword Wing BS trades 1 tec for 1 fly, and has slightly more HP. If you aren't going to run Sword Wing BS, I'd at least switch to Vulture. 3-slot variants of all three are quite accessible anyway.

    @Blizt wrote:

    Weapon choice wise, Victor AM's Beam Cannon let me able to deal both Lnd (beam) and Air (blast) quite nicely
    Stardust type weapons are pure beam damage. Beam + Blast would be horribly broken. If you want blast damage (which you really should), use a Mini Bazooka or Circuit Breaker (preferably the former; the latter's hard to come by anyway).

    @Blizt wrote:
    one example would be when against ART, since Beam Cannon's beam/blast attributes both don't have an advantage over ART (and I can't really spam it, even though it's double the dmg of Pulse Gun), spamming Pulse Gun against them and stun them would seem a better choice to me.
    If you have Frau LG and Viktor AM, the only situation where you shouldn't be punching or kicking arts is if there's three or more in a group.
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    Blizt
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    Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: Empty
    PostSubject: Re: Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D:   Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: EmptyMon Apr 18, 2011 5:49 pm

    @reVelske wrote:
    1. Ouch, Pulse Gun, good luck trying to kill anything with it. Replace it with a Limited Plasma, or if you really like eletric guns, try get a Paralyzer.

    Nah, I'm not really going to kill with that small dmg >.>
    I mainly just use it on lone enemy (or a maximum of two) that's not Air, and combine with Adone LG for the real killer.

    I do like electric gun, and I also have a Paralyzer, problem is its cost is a bit too much compare to Pulse Gun...I'll consider it though...maybe.

    @reVelske wrote:
    2. Replace Izuna AMs with Tentrion AMs, DO IT.

    Oops, Izuna AM wasn't what I was planning to use, when I typed all that part I was training it in Berz run, I had equipped that on for Shotgun because I was overcost lol.

    I was planning to use a 3 slots Lily Rain AM, but thx for suggesting Tentrion, I'll try to get a 2 slots of it if I can Very Happy (right now mine are all 0 slot...)

    @reVelske wrote:
    3. Sword Wing BS, Vulture BS, Tengu BS, Brickgale BS, Adone BS. Make your pick.

    My Snow Vulture's choice might not be the best, but if it makes happy gaming, it's ok wouldn't you say? Very Happy

    Of course, doesn't mean I think your suggestions are bad though, thx a lot for suggesting =]
    (I also have several 3 slots Volcanics BS with 3 FLY and whatever, but imo looks too flashy so I ditched it lol)

    @reVelske wrote:
    4. I remember hearing about 12 being the minimum recommended TGH on JP boards with the JP folks, buuuut that's for CTF I think so don't bother, of course, it would be nice to hit that number I'm sure.

    I'll try I guess :/

    @reVelske wrote:
    5. 40 FLY if you have the slots/mats to spare, otherwise, 38 is perfectly fine too. With full boost gauge, 40 FLY beats 38 by a whole Froglander length, so... yeah, not that life-threatening.

    Ok, thx for that tip...Froglander length, lol.

    @reVelske wrote:
    6. Always tune your TEC for the best Force breakpoint for all your weapons, use the comicalc to help you determine the best TEC to aim for.

    Understood, it's those TEC number at the very bottom right? I think it was like every 6~7 TEC add 1 power or something?

    @reVelske wrote:
    7. Meh, another frau-legged cheese. ¬_¬

    Hurray for cheese~!

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    @Suguri wrote:
    There's a very noticeable difference there, yes. Also, certain missiles and other homing weapons can be near-impossible to dodge at even 35 fly, but become (more) easily avoidable at 40. 40 fly is a universal recommendation for successful air play.

    Thanks for the info, combined with reVelske's advice, I'll try to get to 40 FLY or as close as I can then =]

    @Suguri wrote:
    Only thing I really have to say here is: Vulture BS costs 10 less than Snow Wing BS with only -1 tgh. 1 tgh isn't worth 10 cost. Sword Wing BS trades 1 tec for 1 fly, and has slightly more HP. If you aren't going to run Sword Wing BS, I'd at least switch to Vulture. 3-slot variants of all three are quite accessible anyway.

    As much as I still wish to stick with Snow Vulture, I'll remember your advice in case one day I decided to ditch it, thanks :3

    @Suguri wrote:
    Stardust type weapons are pure beam damage. Beam + Blast would be horribly broken. If you want blast damage (which you really should), use a Mini Bazooka or Circuit Breaker (preferably the former; the latter's hard to come by anyway).

    That's weird...because in battle I did in fact did some good dmg with it on Air, and on the wiki it also said Stardust Cannon is both "Beam" and "Blast", since Victor AM's Beam Cannon is just like it, it should be same then? o.o

    Maybe it being horribly broken is exactly the reason for the whole game to have only 2 kinds of Beam Cannon? (Stardust & Victor AM)

    Unlike Bazooka, those u got so many kinds of variant for all different size bot too...

    @Suguri wrote:
    If you have Frau LG and Viktor AM, the only situation where you shouldn't be punching or kicking arts is if there's three or more in a group.

    Roger...even though I knew this already, I may get high sometimes, but I'm not gonna be that high to rush myself on the ground when there's 3 ART holding missile/bazooka aiming for me! *shiver*
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    Suguri
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    Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: Empty
    PostSubject: Re: Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D:   Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: EmptyMon Apr 18, 2011 6:57 pm

    @Blizt wrote:

    That's weird...because in battle I did in fact did some good dmg with it on Air, and on the wiki it also said Stardust Cannon is both "Beam" and "Blast", since Victor AM's Beam Cannon is just like it, it should be same then? o.o

    Maybe it being horribly broken is exactly the reason for the whole game to have only 2 kinds of Beam Cannon? (Stardust & Victor AM)
    If you're talking about the JP wiki, it says the blast has beam type attributes. That just means the explosion does beam damage, not that it does blast damage. It just hits airs hard because it hits everything hard, as long as that everything doesn't have beam guard.

    Also, those aren't the only beam cannons. There are other guns such as little star gun.
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    Blizt
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    Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: Empty
    PostSubject: Re: Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D:   Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: EmptyMon Apr 18, 2011 7:30 pm

    @Suguri wrote:
    If you're talking about the JP wiki, it says the blast has beam type attributes. That just means the explosion does beam damage, not that it does blast damage. It just hits airs hard because it hits everything hard, as long as that everything doesn't have beam guard.

    I see...well as long as it's still good enough for anti-Air, I got np with it :3

    @Suguri wrote:
    Also, those aren't the only beam cannons. There are other guns such as little star gun.

    Huh...I didn't see it or other such weapon in the wiki, is it from the past garapon or something? :X
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    Suguri
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    Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: Empty
    PostSubject: Re: Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D:   Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: EmptyMon Apr 18, 2011 7:32 pm

    Little Star Gun was in last week's garapon.

    EDIT: I just realized, you said you were only using a Snow Vulture BS. There's a second BS slot on the Adone LG, though. Is that empty?
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    Blizt
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    Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: Empty
    PostSubject: Re: Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D:   Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: EmptyMon Apr 18, 2011 7:58 pm

    @Suguri wrote:
    Little Star Gun was in last week's garapon.

    EDIT: I just realized, you said you were only using a Snow Vulture BS. There's a second BS slot on the Adone LG, though. Is that empty?

    NOOOOOOOOOO~~~ *dead*

    And I think I made some mistake when I was editing my post, no I'm also using Izuna's BS on the 2nd BS slot.
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    Suguri
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    Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: Empty
    PostSubject: Re: Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D:   Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: EmptyMon Apr 18, 2011 8:00 pm

    In that case, with your current part setup, this is probably the best you'll get (assuming you farm a +fly accessory like yellow ribbon):

    【Robot Name】
    Izuna Kamui

    【Parts】
    BD: Izuna Kamui BD
     WB: Slayer Bit
     LG: Adone LG
      BS: Izuna Kamui BS [High Boost Beta] [High Tech Alpha]
     HD: Izuna Kamui HD
      HDAC: Yellow Ribbon
      FCAC: Red Scarf [High Boost Beta]
     BS: Snow Vulture BS [High Boost Beta] [High Boost Beta]
     AM: Victor AM [High Boost Beta] [High Boost Beta]
     AM: Lily Rain AM [High Boost Beta] [High Boost Beta]
      WP: Mini Bazooka [Great Force Alpha]

    【Config Check】
    COST: OK
    BS: OK
    LG: OK

    【Stats】
    TYPE: 空
    SIZE: M
    COST: 1180
    CAPA: 1180
    HP: 441
    STR: 3
    TEC: 19
    WLK: 1
    FLY: 40
    TGH: 9

    LEVEL: 10

    【Cartridges】
    Capacity +70×6
    Beam Guard
    Sword Guard
    Quick Boost
    Quick Jump

    【必要素材】
    Fudara Cosmos×9
    Threede Cosmos×1
    Red Chip×70
    Yellow Chip×40
    Stabilizer×9
    Turbo Charger×40
    Strike Metal×9
    Drum Magazine×24
    Guide Circuit×7
    Prism Glass×15
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    Blizt
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    Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: Empty
    PostSubject: Re: Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D:   Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: EmptyMon Apr 18, 2011 11:07 pm

    Thanks for doing a setup for me, but I forgot to say something so that build is not really the one for me yet Surprised

    Because of Air Loop that I use sometimes, I need to have room for another 30 cost, so I modify my build and made this final:


    【Robot Name】
    Izuna Kamui

    【Parts】
    BD: Izuna Kamui BD
     WB: Slayer Bit
     LG: Adone LG [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech Alpha] [High Tech Alpha]
      BS: Beezle BS [High Boost Beta] [High Boost Beta] [High Boost Beta]
     HD: Izuna Kamui HD
      HDAC: White Flower (0 slot)
      FCAC: Red Scarf [High Boost Beta]
     BS: Izuna Kamui BS [High Boost Beta] [High Boost Beta] [High Boost Beta]
     AM: Victor AM [Rapid] [Rapid] [Range]
     AM: Bloom Maria Tentrion AM [Tech Alpha] [Boost Alpha]
      WP: Pulse Gun

    【Configuration Check】
    COST: OK
    BS: OK
    LG: OK

    【Stat】
    TYPE: 空
    SIZE: M
    COST: 1180
    CAPA: 1180
    HP: 426
    STR: 1
    TEC: 22
    WLK: 2
    FLY: 39
    TGH: 7

    LEVEL: 10

    【Cartridge】
    Capacity +70×6
    Quick Boost
    Quick Jump
    Sniper Sight
    Stealth System
    Air Loop

    【Materials】
    Hidora Cosmos×2
    Fudara Cosmos×10
    Ones Cosmos×3
    Red Chip×67
    Yellow Chip×37
    Stabilizer×28
    Turbo Charger×36
    Scope Lens×4
    Rapid Crystal×10
    Drum Magazine×21
    Guide Circuit×21

    Beezle BS

    When I was seriously thinking if I should remove Snow Vulture and use other BS like u guys suggested, on the wiki I found Beezle BS, which it not only 1 FLY with no negative stat, it also only use 5 cost. So I went into the game to check it, and realized not only it's so damn small, and the fact that I actually have a 3 slots...*happy*

    I tried test-tuning between choices of Beezle BS (5 cost 1 FLY) and Sword Wing BS (30 cost 3 FLY), after reaching 40 FLY, with Beezle I can get TEC tuned to 22, while Sword Wing I can only get to 18...and not to mention the later is much bigger in size :3

    2 less FLY with room of 25 cost to mess around with, seems a good trade to me =]

    White Flower (0 slot)

    I actually have several HDAC that add 1 FLY, but with this build, they're not needed anymore, so now I can just equip the HDAC I like (for the look!), or one that add other stat like TEC Very Happy

    Bloom Maria Tentrion AM

    I can't find Tentrion AM in CosmiCalc, so I just used another AM with the same 25 cost, and add similar stat like Tentrion, except it adds 1 less FLY than Tentrion, so even though it says 39 FLY up there, it's actually 40 FLY =]

    Another good thing is, with this build, I don't even have bother to get myself a 3 slots, a 2 slots will do just fine, or I can even use a 1 slots (which I have) and do the tune up on other part like on my Pulse Gun or 1 slot White Flower (if I get one)

    Pulse Gun

    I decided to stick with my weapon choice, but, since Air Loop isn't permanent, there are time that I'll go without it, and then I'll have 30 more cost again, by then I can equip other weapon/tuned-weapon that doesn't go over 70 cost (which includes tuned Mini-Bazooka~)

    Other

    My build's HP is slightly lower than the you provided (-15HP), but not that great the difference. Also have the same 1180 cost.

    STR and TGH got even lower than, but that gives me room to have 3 more TEC Very Happy

    Sniper Sight & Stealth System are just my personal preference for sneak attack, imo they're more useful than Beam/Sword Guard...but that's just my opinion yeah.

    Now I just need to farm the materials now...especially the Red Chip >.<|||
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    Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: Empty
    PostSubject: Re: Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D:   Tuning my Izuna, but wondering how much FLY/TGH I should go for D: Empty

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