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 Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(

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Mist
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AngelWings
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Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( Empty
PostSubject: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyWed Apr 06, 2011 10:46 am

Hello, I have a problem with playing Seraphs, or any airs for that matter, in the Union.

First, my situation--I am very adept at playing lands, so-so using airs and support, and absolutely horrible using arts. With my Jikun, I can easily take out robots without lagging, and I'm rather proud of that.

However, once I switch out to my Seraph, I find that I don't do much damage as I want or did with lands... I want to know how I can improve my air-robot gameplay.

Here are my problems:
1) I use a single Plasma Gun and a Buckler to defend against other airs and zooks/missiles. Is this a problem? I was thinking of switching that buckler for a mini-zook?
2) I tried the beam machinegun in battle, and I thought it would be great on 1 on 1 battles. Would this help my air robot performance?
3) Even with lock-on, I find that I only hit my targets around 25-33% of the time. Is there some way to make this shooting percentage more accurate? I understand that I may have to "Manually aim", but I find that my bullets often lean towards the locked-on target, even if I try to manually aim.
4) Plasma v. Wide Beam gun. Plasma has a huge cost, compared to a Wide Beam gun, with a higher force. Which do you think I should use, for best performance?

My main focus are my Seraphs, so suggestions according to S-airs are greatly appreciated.

Thank you
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koi
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyWed Apr 06, 2011 11:12 am

Can't say you're using wrong weapons, zooka is also a great choice. 25% hitrate should also be enough for decent score.

Probably something's wrong with your playstyle and/or your bot stats.
I need more detailed information.
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inzane14
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 5:30 am

In terms of weapons, I believe Plasma gun too costly on a Seraph. You can get as much performance if not better performance from a Force tuned Limited Plasma gun. With a difference in 2 force, 40 ammo, its not really a noticeable cutback. Limited Plasma also has better range, speed and int. Thats extra 50 capa already.

Plasma Gun: 170 cost

Force 18
Ammo 340
Range 220
Speed 270
Int 440

Force tuned Limited Plasma Gun: 120 cost

Force 16
Ammo 300
Range 240
Speed 290
Int 400

Wide beam gun is also a suitable substitute but I find the bullets too slow so I recommend at least x1 Great Rapid Beta for 316 speed. 450 is enough ammo to last an average game and Wide beam gun damage is more consistent than limited plasma. So the choice is actually on the player's preference.
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 6:23 am

well for seraph you must tune for 40 FLY, rest into TEC hopefully 20-ish...

Main weapons are either plasma gun, limited plasma gun and if you have it, the best weapon for seraph Auto Beam Rifle.

Secondary is definitely mini zooks if you want to stand a chance winning any dogfight. Nearly every other S air is armed with one lately. Not fun hitting other air with your plasma for 20 (or less if they have beam guard) while they do 40+ dmg to you.
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the_sod
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 6:29 am

i remember reading somewhere here that to aim great you must stop pressing the direction key and then shoot
so let it fly by itself and while strafe then aim scratch
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AngelWings
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 8:35 am

Thank you for all your tips and suggestions.

So far, My Seraph has the following:
38 Fly
17 TEC

I know they're a bit low, but not only the Cosmos Pot failed me 6 times in a row at ~60% success, my seraph has close to 0 WLK, which I don't want.

As for the Minizook, I found that it also strips off FLY, so I decided to see if I can upgrade it for Fly somehow, and nullify that.

As for the Limited Plasma Gun, I guess I'll keep looking for it, but it must be a rare drop in the arena >.<;;

As for the Wide Gun, I'm definitely thinking about it, since a well-tuned Wide beam gun would be as good as a plasma.

Auto Beam Rifle... I'll get lucky sometime when I do garapon, hopefully XD

Nonetheless, I have a feeling that it's simply my gameplay, as some said, since my friend (who just started) got second in the arena with the Seraph. He said it was luck, but I saw him constantly getting top 10. I almost choked him to death
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nakee
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 8:59 am

based on my experience, one of the seraphs greatest asset in scoring high in union wars is its ability to not die the whole game XD

a good way to start is dont aim to kill you enemies, try to harass them with the least risk possible, after getting used to that playstyle you can be more aggressive and do more damage, just dont kamikaze

on aiming with LPG, i find it easier to hit if you're moving on a left right left right pattern..... <-- you become an easy target tho


Last edited by nakee on Thu Apr 07, 2011 8:59 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)
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koi
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 9:02 am

Boost fly to 40, by any means.

LPG might look good, but it drains ammo really fast. Not an issue for suicide players though. Might be the best weapon for you.

WBG lacks dps. It takes ages to kill something with it, especially if that something has beam guard.

ABR is not in gara, and it takes skill to be used properly. Don't think about it much.
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AngelWings
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 9:06 am

I guess I should stick with my plasma and raise that last bit of Fly?

Other than that, as I said in my second post, I think it may be the gameplay, since my friend was much better at controlling airs than myself.

Also, what's with the fact that I keep missing, even with lock-on? ._.;; I see the bullets hitting the robots, but it doesn't do damage. I can only see this as lag =x
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reVelske
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 9:25 am

@AngelWings wrote:

38 Fly
17 TEC

those stats are fine TBH, 17 TEC is a breakpoint for both Limited Plasma and Mini Bazooka damage, whilst 38 FLY is the last breakpoint for FLY, you shouldn't see all that much difference in your speed with two extra points. My Izuna sits on 17 TEC with Limited Plasma+mini Zooka and she can happily deal 2k damage on a good day, 1k on a bad one. That's without death of course.

Without something as beefy as ABR, instead of sniping things down from afar/high up, you will need to try hunt people who are caught out of position or resort to hit-n-run harassments. Dogfights will bag you a lot of damage and kills once you are familiar with it, but without being able to equip the likes of Brickgale BS/Tengu BS, you don't have any means to reach maximum altitude quickly, therefore putting you in a slight disadvantage against those who do. In terms of harassments, always keep a look out for fatarts who are not in a very secure position that you can pick off, circle strafe with whatever beam gun you have.

As for Land units, sure, you have a type advantage with bonus damage against them, but problem is they most Land units you'll find are quite mobile therefore difficult to hit. Plus with the likes of land melee, they will be the center of attention once they've charged into your team's defense, once TGH kicks in, you are not going to deal much damage to them regardless of damage bonus. As for hopper... they are naturally difficult to hit without Wisp and generally not worth the time and trouble when you could be doing far better things with a Seraph.

You'll have to be more specific in terms of what you are having trouble with in order for us to help further.

@AngelWings wrote:

As for the Minizook, I found that it also strips off FLY, so I decided to see if I can upgrade it for Fly somehow, and nullify that.

that -2 penalty is just something you have to deal with, though if you want to tune it, do High/Great Rapid rather.

@AngelWings wrote:

As for the Wide Gun, I'm definitely thinking about it, since a well-tuned Wide beam gun would be as good as a plasma.

Correct.
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kuro_zero
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 9:47 am

Try using beam rifle and mini zook
it's really fun

u can take down escaping AIR at long distance with beam rifle and snipe the ARTs from high Altitude due its range
and u can find good spot and start sniping the enemies

if u want to take the ART with beam rifle in med range or short range(when u activated ur Sword WB or Slayer WB if u equip them) and flying in circular direction to evade their attacks (fly to right or left while locking on targets ) try to aim the beam rifle more to right if u take left direction or more to left if u take right direction

and Seraph tackle is pretty useful too to take down ARTs or other AIR with Melee WB on.
and for spamming the zooka to take down other AIR what u need is just shoot it on right time

don't hold left click and fire without lock on the target first or incoming AIR with fast speed, it's just waste ur ammo
shoot it when u get ur good position to fire and clear target
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Nisa
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 11:22 am

Try not to fly in a predictable pattern.
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Mist
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 1:24 pm

The best UC weapons I've tried on S air units have to be the BMG, limited/plasma gun, and mini zook.
Get any 1 of the beam guns plus the zook and your good for all situations.
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 1:35 pm

@Mist wrote:
Get any 1 of the beam guns plus the zook and your good for all situations.
And don't forget Slayer Bits for dogfights/close range combat. Stuns enemy AIRs and does good damage to ARTs.
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 1:43 pm

As already said here, harass fat arts and slow units is the best choice you have for now. Avoid dog fights with other air users(especially the ones with zookas) if you don't feel you can win against them or there's more than one against you, use her wings to escape.

Also, if you feel that you aren't hitting your enemy, try to aim a little ahead of him. Oh, and if you're going for survival, be careful with your ammo, sometimes you will need to farm a little for some(unless there's a chibi with ammo circle in your team).
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reVelske
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 2:09 pm

@NecroWing wrote:
use her wings to escape.

I've seen a lot of Seraph users using that as their last resort for the invincibility and escape, that's frankly a terrible idea and anyone who's even remotely clued up will make sure you are stunlocked by alphas the moment you are out of invincibility frames.
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NecroWing
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 3:16 pm

While retreating, I use her wings at the moment my boost goes out and I start falling on the ground, when this happen, I'm totally vulnerable. So I use her wings to not lose height, therefore, have more chance to escape.
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koi
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 3:26 pm

Using wings to escape is really bad. Using those 25+ seconds of 40+ fly JUST TO RUN?
I always save wings until I feel it's the time.
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NecroWing
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 3:34 pm

@koi wrote:
Using those 25+ seconds of 40+ fly JUST TO RUN?

lolno. I use more to chase than to retreat actually, I just pointed that can be useful while retreating too, it's working fine for me. I do agree that depends on the occasion, etc. Sometimes I don't even use the entire match(good thing that I do not depend on her wings to play).
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 3:55 pm

@NecroWing wrote:
it's working fine for me.

me iz feeling your br rating ain't too good right now
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NecroWing
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyThu Apr 07, 2011 4:12 pm

@BNOISE wrote:
@NecroWing wrote:
it's working fine for me.

me iz feeling your br rating ain't too good right now

I dunno. 7.something is considered good for you? (only using air)

Also, for no derailing the topic even more, I suggest to try different playstyles, disregarding her wings. With 38~40 fly you can harass pretty much almost everything.
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyFri Apr 08, 2011 2:07 am

About the wings : usually, I don't use them at the beginning, I wait until there are people healing in the other team, then I get the wings out with a slicer gun, and circle strafe the healed. Effect guaranted. If you don't have the slicer gun, weapon like the mini-zook, with an AOE, should be good to go too.
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AngelWings
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyFri Apr 08, 2011 8:46 am

On the topic of Seraph Wings, why do I always fall to the ground after I use them?

Sometimes, I can spam the spacebar to stay in the air, but most of the time, even if I press the spacebar, my seraph lands on the ground after activating the wings
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inzane14
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyFri Apr 08, 2011 9:06 am

@AngelWings wrote:
On the topic of Seraph Wings, why do I always fall to the ground after I use them?

Sometimes, I can spam the spacebar to stay in the air, but most of the time, even if I press the spacebar, my seraph lands on the ground after activating the wings

Its just a matter of mastering the timing. You can use the wings on the ground first the fly up but I believe that would be a waste of altitude and 10 secs of flying.

10 sec in the sky + use wings = more air time / don't need to change altitude
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koi
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PostSubject: Re: Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =(   Help on properly playing a Seraph in Union Wars? =( EmptyFri Apr 08, 2011 9:07 am

Because of lag.
Try spamming tackle to avoid it.

You can also try spamming tempura asking to add vanish jump/stovl effect to wings.
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