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 [general]Guide to Artillery Units

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Sunohara
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PostSubject: ..   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptyMon Jun 28, 2010 9:48 am

Kampfer.. No
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GurrenMk3
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptyWed Jun 30, 2010 8:52 am

hi so.. im new here and wanted to see some guide for my march. i found ppl debating on lily rain. personally, i couldn't bear to love the unit since im an air type and i got a lot of heavy arts under my crimrose's leg than lily. toyboxes, saggy etc just stands around then run away after 2 or 3 secs of getting hit. so i love em in arena xD but one thing i hate in arena are the lilies since they hide behind those sitting ducks(as in they don't run just walk behind them) added to it are the damage they give out.

can't make it to top 5 since the main target in arena are air types and i could kill 1 when i charge in enemy base most of the time

i bow my head to those irritating lilies(the ones who hide behind ppl) and not to those who give chase to me
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Rein
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptyWed Jun 30, 2010 4:19 pm

@GurrenMk3 wrote:
hi so.. im new here and wanted to see some guide for my march. i found ppl debating on lily rain. personally, i couldn't bear to love the unit since im an air type and i got a lot of heavy arts under my crimrose's leg than lily. toyboxes, saggy etc just stands around then run away after 2 or 3 secs of getting hit. so i love em in arena xD but one thing i hate in arena are the lilies since they hide behind those sitting ducks(as in they don't run just walk behind them) added to it are the damage they give out.

can't make it to top 5 since the main target in arena are air types and i could kill 1 when i charge in enemy base most of the time

i bow my head to those irritating lilies(the ones who hide behind ppl) and not to those who give chase to me

The main problem is that explosives get a 2.3 damage multipler against Air types (this is saying in general) whereas other weapon advangtages only give a 1.4 damage multipler. Stack that with the naturally high damage of explosives and the naturally low tough of air types (or for larger ones, easy targets) and it's pure mass murder. Which is hilarious that people dislike stardust cannon or the birdie's AMs since they're good damage Air type weapons.... Both have specific drawbacks one being cost for the former (and being drop only) while the latter means you can't hold a weapon and can easily run out of ammo really quickly.

Whereas explosives can be easily attained either through shop or garapon.... and are frequently spammed... and not always by Arts. Which brings me back to the topic at hand....

Lilys are fragile compared to other Arts AND can't wield about half the explosive weapons that other Arts can. Which does make them rather easy targets since some people forget both facts and spam fire away... making themselves really easy targets.

And I've made top five before in in match ranking... with melee air. So it's not really Lily's fault, I think you just have poor luck against them Sad.
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Replekia
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptyWed Jun 30, 2010 9:39 pm

@Rein wrote:

The main problem is that explosives get a 2.3 damage multiplier against Air types (this is saying in general) whereas other weapon advantages only give a 1.4 damage multiplier. Stack that with the naturally high damage of explosives and the naturally low tough of air types (or for larger ones, easy targets) and it's pure mass murder. Which is hilarious that people dislike stardust cannon or the birdie's AMs since they're good damage Air type weapons.... Both have specific drawbacks one being cost for the former (and being drop only) while the latter means you can't hold a weapon and can easily run out of ammo really quickly.

Whereas explosives can be easily attained either through shop or garapon.... and are frequently spammed... and not always by Arts. Which brings me back to the topic at hand....

Lilys are fragile compared to other Arts AND can't wield about half the explosive weapons that other Arts can. Which does make them rather easy targets since some people forget both facts and spam fire away... making themselves really easy targets.

And I've made top five before in in match ranking... with melee air. So it's not really Lily's fault, I think you just have poor luck against them Sad.

The thing about AIR players whining about explosives is that explosives are the slowest moving and easiest to dodge of all weaponry. A good AIR player can easily dodge explosives (trust me, they're wily little targets) especially since the game's auto-aiming system will to a minor extent, compensate your attack angle to help hit your locked on target. (i.e. aiming at a target moving left will fire slightly left, this effect seems to increase with TEC but I can't confirm) so if your target changes directions when you fire, they can easily avoid your fire. That may sound hard, but trust me, I played crimrose until I realized I hate AIR types and it is a really easy habit to get into once you know the rhythm of fire for bazookas. A good Air player will also count shots fired at them: lily users are super fond of the handy bazooka, which is 6 shots per reload (anyone else see this opening? get in their with a melee weapon and kill the lily) IMO an AIR player that can't dodge explosives at a decent rate is as bad as an ART player who stands in one place and waits for the LAND types to chop them up Julienne-style. Easiest way to learn to do this is to ask a friend who owns a lily to 1v1 you in team arena. On a related note, make 100% sure to actually use the lock-on indicator. Stops you from getting blindsided by 3 rounds of dual-wielded missiles before you react. This is especially effective since most Lily's will not get the ability that blocks you from noticing targeting until level 10. Most will max out cap, decrease explosive dmg 50% and get stealth and soul eater first.

While I'm on this note. AIR TYPES SHOULD NOT USE EXPLOSIVES! I can't count how many stupid crimroses I've seen with mini bazookas... All ARTS can and will get the -50% explosive damage upgrade. Equip a sword and a beam weapon and you're good to hunt down land and protect yourself from ART.

However, if the lily has blast bazookas, you're dead. Those things are the ultimate Anti-air weapon. They are like regular bazookas but explode mid-air with what looks like blue fireworks. You'll quickly be 6 feet deep, that's all there is to it, so RUN! AIR TYPES ARE FAST! VERY FAST! When caught in a barrage of heavy fire from a lily, why on earth to AIR types think they'll win with their dinky little beam guns? For heck's sake retreat. Do you kave any idea how easy it is for a lily to pluck an AIR type from the sky when you are the only one fighting it? real easy. It's like shooting monkeys in a barrel, it's that easy.

While what you say about Lily's fragility and comparative lack of firepower is true, she is still a deadly character due to her speed and agility. The problem with this is that it takes a very skilled player to properly wield a lily. Any hack can take a toybox or sturbanger and rain missiles from behind a wall of their own comrades, but it takes talent to wield a front-liner like lily because you must always be aware of every threat and how to avoid it because even a few melee hits will devastate a lily, and in that regard she is much like an AIR type. Because she is so often played improperly by new characters, lily gets a bad reputation, however of the 3 starting bots I find her to be the most deadly when played correctly.


*AHEM* This tutorial on fighting Lily rain was brought to you by ACME corp. "when you need absolutely anything, fast!"



TL;DRTo AIR types: learn to dodge, bazookas are slow so switch directions in air after the ART fires. Stop equipping explosives, it's stupid. Kill bad lily players with your sword during their reload of their handy bazooka every 6 shots (or sooner if their aim sucks). Have fun, enjoy CB, and raise my fame?
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GurrenMk3
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptyThu Jul 01, 2010 8:10 am

@Rein wrote:
@GurrenMk3 wrote:
hi so.. im new here and wanted to see some guide for my march. i found ppl debating on lily rain. personally, i couldn't bear to love the unit since im an air type and i got a lot of heavy arts under my crimrose's leg than lily. toyboxes, saggy etc just stands around then run away after 2 or 3 secs of getting hit. so i love em in arena xD but one thing i hate in arena are the lilies since they hide behind those sitting ducks(as in they don't run just walk behind them) added to it are the damage they give out.

can't make it to top 5 since the main target in arena are air types and i could kill 1 when i charge in enemy base most of the time

i bow my head to those irritating lilies(the ones who hide behind ppl) and not to those who give chase to me

The main problem is that explosives get a 2.3 damage multipler against Air types (this is saying in general) whereas other weapon advangtages only give a 1.4 damage multipler. Stack that with the naturally high damage of explosives and the naturally low tough of air types (or for larger ones, easy targets) and it's pure mass murder. Which is hilarious that people dislike stardust cannon or the birdie's AMs since they're good damage Air type weapons.... Both have specific drawbacks one being cost for the former (and being drop only) while the latter means you can't hold a weapon and can easily run out of ammo really quickly.

Whereas explosives can be easily attained either through shop or garapon.... and are frequently spammed... and not always by Arts. Which brings me back to the topic at hand....

Lilys are fragile compared to other Arts AND can't wield about half the explosive weapons that other Arts can. Which does make them rather easy targets since some people forget both facts and spam fire away... making themselves really easy targets.

And I've made top five before in in match ranking... with melee air. So it's not really Lily's fault, I think you just have poor luck against them Sad.

hm.. maybe because im usually on support lol thing is, they're a bit faster than toyboxes and they run on someone else's side hiding or making the tank... well, tank. funniest moment is that when a lily noob player tries to pick an air off the ground when he's already the target of the air type. and yes, crimrose is trash but increase it's flight by adding tune ups and the cross raptor arms plus the amj booster and even a lily with explosive will find it hard to shoot you down even if you use a beam gun.

mega beam gun- worst. gun. ever.
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MightyPeanut
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 03, 2010 10:48 am

Lily is by far my favourite artillery mech. Like the person in page 4 (i think) said. Play her like air and never stand still.
Get 30+tec on a lily with a blast bazooka and you'll be a glass cannon. Keep moving at all times because you are fragile, but any air or other artillery that stands in your way will be ripped apart. I'd generally run from land units if possible.

Lily power! Razz

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Those were with the 30 tec lily. The 40tec lily which i made later hits 80s on crimroses with a blast bazooka. A crimrose standing still (for whatever reason) for 3 seconds is a dead one. :
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Replekia
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 03, 2010 11:02 am

@MightyPeanut wrote:
The 40tec lily which i made later hits 80s on crimroses with a blast bazooka. A crimrose standing still (for whatever reason) for 3 seconds is a dead one. :

only 80? I hit 90+ easy on a 36 TEC lily (I gave up 4 TEC so I could upgrade to level 10 and get soul eater T_T) and that's single wielding. I can hit well over 150 if I fire both my Blasts at the same time.

Also is it just me, or does raising TEC also seem to raise critical hit rate?
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MightyPeanut
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptySat Jul 03, 2010 11:37 am

How do you manage to get 2 blast bazookas and tuneup to 36tec on a lily without overcosting?
I can barely manage the 30-40tec and i'm using a blast and handy
And yes, usually its around 80, give or take 10 with the first shot from a blast bazooka (goes down after successive shots). I've yet to see it go over 100though
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technomo12
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptyTue Jul 06, 2010 8:40 am

i have a question since beta is nearing to be over would it be better to switch to dual little granade or should i stick to my dual handies??
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Sunohara
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PostSubject: ..   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptyTue Jul 06, 2010 1:26 pm

DO A BARREL ROLL!!!
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Replekia
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptyTue Jul 06, 2010 7:55 pm

@MightyPeanut wrote:
How do you manage to get 2 blast bazookas and tuneup to 36tec on a lily without overcosting?
I can barely manage the 30-40tec and i'm using a blast and handy
And yes, usually its around 80, give or take 10 with the first shot from a blast bazooka (goes down after successive shots). I've yet to see it go over 100though

I had to keep her at level 9 sadly. and I am at exactly full cost. It may also be noting that my lily is actually a Lily Rain Majalis.
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technomo12
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptyTue Jul 06, 2010 11:56 pm

@Replekia wrote:
@MightyPeanut wrote:
How do you manage to get 2 blast bazookas and tuneup to 36tec on a lily without overcosting?
I can barely manage the 30-40tec and i'm using a blast and handy
And yes, usually its around 80, give or take 10 with the first shot from a blast bazooka (goes down after successive shots). I've yet to see it go over 100though

I had to keep her at level 9 sadly. and I am at exactly full cost. It may also be noting that my lily is actually a Lily Rain Majalis.

which has a difference of 2 tec but sadly im also using the plain old lily rain since i use the trans skirt alot and also the slicer a lot also
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Replekia
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptyFri Jul 09, 2010 10:51 pm

@technomo12 wrote:
@Replekia wrote:
@MightyPeanut wrote:
How do you manage to get 2 blast bazookas and tuneup to 36tec on a lily without overcosting?
I can barely manage the 30-40tec and i'm using a blast and handy
And yes, usually its around 80, give or take 10 with the first shot from a blast bazooka (goes down after successive shots). I've yet to see it go over 100though

I had to keep her at level 9 sadly. and I am at exactly full cost. It may also be noting that my lily is actually a Lily Rain Majalis.

which has a difference of 2 tec but sadly im also using the plain old lily rain since i use the trans skirt alot and also the slicer a lot also

To be honest I've never actually used those weapons in Arena. They don't deal damage fast enough to ensure a top 10 spot, so I don't use it. However if you like playing the range lock-on type of robot, you should definitely invest in a destructor girl.
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MightyPeanut
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptyFri Jul 09, 2010 11:01 pm

I never ever use Psygun by itself (But it comes out when i fire all weapons) except for Trees and when I'm completely out of ammo for all other guns. The damage is just too pathethic and to invest cartridges for internal weapons is a complete waste when you could be using them for more capacity for tune-ups.

I only occasionally use psyslicer on the Majalis when there's nothing else to do as you can still move while using it. (ie. In cases where the enemy is too far away for the other guns so you use psyslicer while you run/fly towards them). But using starter Lily's psyslicer in the middle of a firefight is just asking to be slaughtered because you completely stop.

I haven't actually tried a destructor girl yet. But from what i've seen in observation mode, it has less mobility than a Lily. Also I think you are meant to stay on the ground with it? Whereas I prefer flying around on the Lily
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Replekia
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptyFri Jul 09, 2010 11:46 pm

@MightyPeanut wrote:
I never ever use Psygun by itself (But it comes out when i fire all weapons) except for Trees and when I'm completely out of ammo for all other guns. The damage is just too pathethic and to invest cartridges for internal weapons is a complete waste when you could be using them for more capacity for tune-ups.

I only occasionally use psyslicer on the Majalis when there's nothing else to do as you can still move while using it. (ie. In cases where the enemy is too far away for the other guns so you use psyslicer while you run/fly towards them). But using starter Lily's psyslicer in the middle of a firefight is just asking to be slaughtered because you completely stop.

I haven't actually tried a destructor girl yet. But from what i've seen in observation mode, it has less mobility than a Lily. Also I think you are meant to stay on the ground with it? Whereas I prefer flying around on the Lily

A little slower yes, but her built in weapon is several hundreds of times better. Up to 4 fast, tracking missiles with good damage. She can still handle like a lily easily enough, and it's much easier to max her TEC.
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptySun Jul 11, 2010 5:31 am

Making Lily Rain into a flying unit, I like that idea. It's that sort of 'thinking outside of the box' thing that makes people unique. I guess since the other versions came out first, someone there would think of that first as well.

My first impression of trying this was pretty ordinary, spent my first UC testing out all the different weapons. After that, built bots around the weapons, rather than around the bot. (does that even make sense?)

Of course I then started playing based on the bots stats and abilities, and added weapons after that. All this happened before I even knew about how tuning worked...


Now I play a single-shot maxis, which I found out a neat little trick (bug?) in which the railgun fires twice when firing all weapons, helpful! I also have two of the Gathima AM2 (the missile arms) on it, which have very nice damage and get the job done. Obviously hitting smart players who are highly mobile with the missiles is near impossible if they are trying, but that is why I use them on the Maxis.

The railgun will stun all but those with the highest tec, and in that moment the missiles easily catch them while they are vulnerable. Now I am not that good of a player and I am still new to this, but this strategy usually always gets me a very nice rank. But as a large Arty type, I am very vulnerable to quick melee types or good air types. For them, I have Moving Burst (I think that's it) and Boost Run. I rarely move without the boost run, and I always keep an eye on my surroundings. If someone does approach me (I am usually not on the front lines anyway) I back peddle while charging my railgun (moving burst lets me shoot all my guns, but I like to use the railgun as my primary) and the two shots themselves push me backwards as I launch my missiles. This pretty much devastates air units, and will leave a nasty bruise on anything else. I could tune it for tons of walk/fly but I think a decent player can get away with common sense~ (40 tec doesn't hurt either!)

@sibladeko

I have seen Peniru first hand, and he really is interesting to fight. So I joined his clan~
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptySun Jul 11, 2010 11:00 am

I see this guide as a nice starter for beginners (like myself) who aren’t sure on where or how to start. I plan to follow the guide then identify what my play-style is... So, that being said I have some questions.

(I apologies if this is the wrong board to ask questions on but I haven’t seen a “beginner questions” board or much information about the game on other websites)

Anyway, I like the idea of the flying Lily but I was wondering if you only tune up into flying which poles apart from the original guides “Tune up focused on TEC and only TEC”, so you drop some damage to pick up mobility, easily understood. But brings me to this question, will I need to buy a new Lily to change the tune ups if unhappy with my current ones?

Also I read that Lily can have x4 handy bazookas.
@Replekia wrote:
Lily should go Dual-wield handies -> Tri-wield handies -> Quad-wield handies -> dual-wield Blasts
My Lily is only capable of carrying 2 weapons at this time, what part do I need to allow her to carry more than her original 2?

Reading through the posts I can see that I’ll have to decide for myself whether I like Lily or not, but from what I’ve gathered I think I’ll be able to enjoy her.

Again, sorry for the questions I’ve got plenty more but I think I’ll be able to answer them myself the more I play.

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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptySun Jul 11, 2010 11:54 am

Asura AMJ allows you to equip two arms on one side, meaning you can have a maximum of four arms and thus four handy bazookas.
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptySun Jul 11, 2010 12:37 pm

@Puddin' wrote:


Anyway, I like the idea of the flying Lily but I was wondering if you only tune up into flying which poles apart from the original guides “Tune up focused on TEC and only TEC”, so you drop some damage to pick up mobility, easily understood. But brings me to this question, will I need to buy a new Lily to change the tune ups if unhappy with my current ones?


Well the best answer is, whatever works for you. But because you said you haven't played much, I'll throw in my two cents to maybe help your decision. I think to sum up what has been said so far, is that you can tune TEC up nicely, and become even more powerful. But it makes no difference if you can't escape from dangerous situations, your damage will do you no good.
-You can go all into FLY, and be very mobile with the damage you expect from an artillery bot.
-You could go somewhere in between, giving yourself a small damage bonus at the expense of highly mobile players being more able to scrap you.
-Lastly you can go high TEC and get a decent damage bonus, but you had better be sure on what is going around you at all times.

As you get more experience, you will decide for yourself what you believe works best~

If you tune a part purely for TEC, and you feel like you want a part with high FLY, you could always buy another part without the upgrades for not too much. I suppose you could switch those parts out as you please, and experiment as you desire~

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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptySun Jul 11, 2010 12:41 pm

good thing +tec upgrades don't take away from fly.
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptySun Jul 11, 2010 1:06 pm

FunThingsAreFun wrote:
If you tune a part purely for TEC, and you feel like you want a part with high FLY, you could always buy another part without the upgrades for not too much. I suppose you could switch those parts out as you please, and experiment as you desire~

Ohhh I see, you tune the part, not the robot... That makes a bit more sense, thanks for the advice.
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptySun Jul 11, 2010 4:20 pm

you can tune the head, booster, body, each arm, each leg, and weapons~

( if you have more then one of any of the above, that is included as well )
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptyMon Jul 12, 2010 2:27 pm

Keep in mind they can only get tunes if they have open slots.
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PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptyTue Jul 13, 2010 11:14 am

Yeah, for Lilly, you'll want TEC and some FLY. I personally find that 15ish FLY is already enough to dodge most things. You'll be hard pressed to find spare capacity (assuming you're using 1 or 2 Blast bazookas) to get both TEC and FLY up above 30 so I would suggest you get FLY to somewhere between 15-25 and put the rest into TEC.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For Tune-ups, the cost effective ones are the HighTec(+2TEC) series.

HighTec (15Cost) +2Tec. Don't get this one, you are wasting capacity. Get the Alpha version because...

HighTecAlpha(10Cost) gives +2Tec,-1Str. 5 Less cost. Since you're a Lilly, you shouldn't be meleeing so strength is useless, therefore feel free to let it hit 0.

HighTecBeta(5Cost only!)gives +2Tec,-1Str,-1Fly. 5 Cost is really nice, but you'll be sacrificing some Fly stats. So its up to you whether you want more killing power at the cost of more survivability. (But as I said earlier, 15ish fly is good enough for me).
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for Fly (I forgot what the exact name is called, i think its booster)

Fly (5Cost) +1Fly. You can use this to conserve some Walk, but you may run out of slots

HighFly (15Cost) +2Fly. Conserve slots but not as cost effective as Fly

HighFlyAlpha (10Cost) +2Fly, -1Walk. Do not get this one becausee...

HighFlyBeta(5Cost) +2Fly, -1Walk -1Str. Yay, its our useless friend Strength again! Personally, I dont actually walk around very much on the Lilly and I'm in the air 80% of the time so Walk isn't too important. I wouldnt let it fall too far though. Maybe around 10, give or take 3
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Random Questions you might ask.

"Why not get the 5Cost +1TEC tuneups?" - You can, and they are the most cost efficient with no penalties but you have a limited number of slots and you aren't going to get any stat very high using just +1Tuneups.

"Why not get the GreatTEC/GreatFLY series?" - They aren't as cost efficient as the +2Stat series. You'd use the +3Stat series to conserve slots in Mechs with alot of capacity to spare. Sadly, Lilly ain't one of those Mechs so you'd probably run out of capacity before you run out of slots.

"What headgear should I wear" - You can either use the Witch Hat (+1Tec) which you get from Garapon 2. Or the Santa hat (Extra 5 capacity for more tuning!) from Garapon 3
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[general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 EmptyWed Jul 14, 2010 2:39 am

Thanks Peanut, my plan is to try to get my FLY up around 20-25 at least until I get better at the game, and then I could sacrifice some FLY for TEC when I get better at avoiding stuff.

Thanks for your input everyone. Smile
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[general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 Empty
PostSubject: Re: [general]Guide to Artillery Units   [general]Guide to Artillery Units - Page 4 Empty

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