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 Shiro's Weekend Show Cases

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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptySun Apr 10, 2016 2:48 pm

Every Weekend, i will try to do a video recording of a bot/bots that i have considered finished. If anyone want me to make a video of something they saw me use or want to suggest something i should feature, leave a comment here or below a video and i would try to make one ( and try to make it entertaining).
SBC EVE:
 
Nemlim Lamia+S railgun:
 
Prome:
 
EO Melfi Heart:
 
Abyss Hu:
 
Aqua Jet Hanna:
 
Frac CS:
 
Corona V:
 
Lino:
 
Laika:
 

Upcoming:Original eve, X3 High Glad Pina, Dongslam ( i designed, some other guy made)


Last edited by WhiteTofuMagic on Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:14 am; edited 7 times in total (Reason for editing : Updated)
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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyMon Apr 18, 2016 12:58 pm

Eo melfi heart Video added
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Maelstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyMon Apr 18, 2016 2:55 pm

@Nemlim Lamia

Her default weapon is not good enough? (I am just asking, I don't have her)
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyMon Apr 18, 2016 3:17 pm

her core lacks the durability to use a close range weapon like that.
such a close range weapon is worthless compared to shred shotgun which is basically the benchmark of close range meta.
Gunner lands are pretty shit in this meta to begin with. If they are close range they need to be extremely durable and have high burst damage to keep up with artillery damage, or they need to be long range builds.
Lamia's weapon lacks the power and her core lacks the durability. If it still had charge delay like the old nemlim's it would probably be really good, but it doesn't. It just shoots 18 force projectiles.
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Maelstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyMon Apr 18, 2016 3:31 pm

This was enlightening. It makes me a bit disappointed...
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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyTue Apr 19, 2016 11:03 am

Lamia has access to charge delay bats. its her wings, they have a sub weapon that fires charge delay missiles. its is detachable.
Her original game plan, from the way her load out is set up, charge gun->charge delay bat->thug life with fat bat, Not that its bad, its just flawed. bat gun has decent force, but its range is too close. Charge gun suffers set back like all the other charge guns, can get stunned out of, can't use sub when you are charging, etc. switching my current build a bit, shred shotgun is definitely doable on Lamia, considering she doesn't worry too much about melees.
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyTue Apr 19, 2016 2:18 pm

the subweapon bats aren't good enough to warrant their cost. The idea of having a separate weapon for shutdown doesn't work unless it has a super long duration or something. If the magnum had charge delay on it, she'd be fine, but the fact that they split things into 3 different weapons is really unfortunate.

Shred shotgun on her is "doable" but it'll fall extremely short of a proper B Pawnger AR build which is the best gunner land core you can get, which will have more HP and capacity while costing less.
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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyTue Apr 19, 2016 5:57 pm

I would say other wise about the sub weapon and considering i have played this thing since it came out, I can say from experience they are worth the consideration. On top of charge delay, they fire in 2s and 2 times per clip, which also let her extend her short boost distance. they don't share cool down with counter unlike some other bots. Her charge delay bats far out range her other variants, let you set up and support from far safer distance. If they did add charge delay to the mag, that would be like...another mellow?

I do like Pawnger AR,great core, nice stats, but it falls short utility wise compared to lamia no matter what you slam on it ( at most i can think of pop stuns and disorder). And i do like my ability to troll melees and mess with arts.
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Maelstrom
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyTue Apr 19, 2016 6:01 pm

I guess it's better to keep the swag blast railgun on nemlim and use
the shrek shotgun in a more durable core...
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyTue Apr 19, 2016 6:57 pm

Quote :
considering i have played this thing since it came out, I can say from experience they are worth the consideration.

lol

anyway the bats are effective but they are simply not worth the cost. You can use them as mobility but sublock weapons are always bad and the fact that you're able to free up 70 cost on a bot that has capacity issues means that you should if you're actually going for something optimal.

Quote :
If they did add charge delay to the mag, that would be like...another mellow?

a mellow with a longer range weapon to fix her short-range issue and being able to use weapon tunes instead of relying on EIW would fix her cart selection issue and make her modernized. Yes, exactly.


Quote :
falls short utility wise compared to lamia no matter what you slam on it

utility is trash on land gunners since it's always a sacrifice. Throw on thrones/noble cape BS, laz amj, and AH bits and you have the most effective shred core in the game.
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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyTue Apr 19, 2016 8:29 pm

@Winty wrote:
but sublock weapons are always bad

That's a rather broad discrimination about sub lock weapons there. I can name a few that does their job well. I am gonna assume the reason you want to remove the sub weapon is based on the fact we are talking about making this a shred shotgun build, which would make more sense since the cost can go toward revenge tunes and potentially more HP.That does mean however Lamia lose the ability to tag other gunnery bots with charge delay, which could have given her an advantage in a gun fight. An extreme case being luto sekka.
@Winty wrote:
utility is trash on land gunners since it's always a sacrifice
That is just nonsense and contradict with what you said later. Why throw on thrones/noble cape BS, laz amj, and AH bits when utility is trash on lnd gunners?
If utility is trash on land gunner, the best build for shred shotgun should be stock frogs with shred shotguns . If utility is trash, ex laz gunnery is garbage and everyone should make lag horse.

You might get away saying that about shred shotgun builds because the damage crack planets and only thing you need is damage. But that is not true for most other bots.
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Esequienes?
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyThu Apr 21, 2016 1:11 pm

Holy crap are you guys writing a book or something.
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God is a Cat Girl
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyThu Apr 21, 2016 2:43 pm

As someone that usually like to have 1 main and one sub, being that the sub as a ranged sub has a lock, I have to add, it is flawed indeed, and because of the way it works and how big is targeting range is, it does make it worse than main weapon locks (which are flawed too, but in a lesser degree and it's only noticeable when the game decides to lock on the PS and no the person below, despite that the crosshair is on the person, annoying but unlike sub locks, easily fixed most of the time), though CL actually makes locks feel almost a bad as CB's sub sometimes.

I forget which bot it was, but I had an issue with a bot that had a single lock sub, which pretty much meant it would lock on the first enemy (or target-able entity) I saw and not the enemy I wanted, so I had to rotate my camera which tends to screw your movement and vision temporarily to just lose that lock and be able to attack the person I wanted. Actually, Seraph Sigma is a lot like that, even worse when her sub lock can bug (or used to, I haven't used her since) and lock on someone and keep that lock for a long time even if they get out of visual range, so you can't use the lock on someone else, but that's a different issue.

Even with multi lock, if there's trees or the PS nearby, it tends to make you waste ammo on those, and even skip players which is what you usually want to hit. It's hard to deny that it's flawed, and just wanted to add that.

On another note, subs really should prioritize players over things like trees and the PS, simple and if done right, it works better than what we have. Weapons like Lily Eve's cannon and Magfrit also could use that or something else (like holding the button to keep the lock as long as they are in the lock on area), because anything will easily ruin their shot, sometimes even things on the background that are close enough will make you lose the locks.
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God is a Cat Girl
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyThu Apr 21, 2016 4:51 pm

@WhiteTofuMagic wrote:

@ God is a Cat Girl

While what you say is true, we can look at something like cow push  missiles and its seems to do its job 80% time. we are talking about majority of the time here. game's auto aim while simplify aiming most of the time, its hard for it to keep up when too many things are on the screen. But by no means should that deter you from use one. It could be better but calling a weapon's general category shit because of few minor issues is excessive

Miruru's get the job done because of AoE and because you want to use it against airs, which means aiming upwards, meaning there's much less obstacles to screw the locks, and because of the projectile size and AoE, it doesn't matter if you lock on their bit or the bot, it gets the job done, but she's just one case and she's not every unit in the game, and just because Miruru gets the job done it doesn't matter others do, though the issue isn't getting the job done, you can get the job done with almost everything, but there's always situations where it won't work in a good way because of it's flaws, that's the point, the flaws, which some people tend to dislike more than others.
I mean, I like subweapons to a degree, I like how some couple well with a main weapon, however, I'm not blind to their flaws, and despite that those only affect a smaller part of the gameplay, they are still there, and should've been worked on if the dev wanted to be any decent.

Some bots aren't affected by flaws because they are dumb/broken, while others never see the light outside of the sub garage because the flaws are never fixed, which should, but never are. Of course this doesn't mean every subweapon, it doesn't mean subweapons are entirely shit, they aren't for most of us, they generally aren't, but when it comes to offer control over what you want to shoot, they are shit, unless you never get yourself in the situation when it's shit, Miruru rarely needs to put herself in that situation, unless you have no airs to shoot at, but considering how many factors offer her a high performance (which honestly death balls are known to be quite dumb because of that) it tends to lessen even further the impacts of the flaw, it's still there though, and not every weapon has her advantages.

Saya can be really annoying at times to get your job done, even more when you want to kill specific targets. Some times I go bomb the repair group and because there's so many people in there, even if I put my crosshair on the enemy support, who usually is what I want to get killed fast, not just the free frags at low HP, and the game locks on everyone but the support, the game does not offer me the control over my weapon to do what I want to do, and that's just bad, of course usually she gets the job done, usually, meaning not every time. But is she shit? Not really, she's quite good in the hands of someone that knows what they are doing, but her sub is flawed and offers a shit control over the targets. But hey, you can mash right click and and get damage, it gets the job done, but if you want to kill a certain target in the middle of many, it might suck really hard.

And what's sad is that aim assist isn't just to simplify, the game without it is mostly unplayable, even worse when some weapons, usually subweapons doesn't even work without it anyway.
But yes, aim assist does simplify the game as a whole, which I find something... conflicting, as the game design wasn't meant to be exactly simple, but considering this was a game meant to run on Pentium 4, it's understandable they wanted to simplify it in a way that it could still be a fast paced game with a high TTK, rather than a slower paced and more tactical game with high TTK (I would've liked the later better though), which might have been not as fun back then because of the game's initial system specs. But the result is that the game is heavily flawed when it comes to offering control, of course, since the game usually has a relatively small number of targets, it's harder to notice it, but it's there, and it's shit that it was never improved.
Though I actually find CL's main lock to be worse than CB's, despite that they allow you to lock the targeting (lock the lock), that only works if the enemy the game is targeting is the one you want to lock, and even though I didn't even play CL that much, I had countless times that I couldn't lock on the player I wanted because it kept targeting the npc in the edge of the targeting reticule, so I have my crosshair on someone and the bot trying to shoot at someone else because fuck you.

And lastly, this is just another case of bad dev and bad community, and this is something that has been happening since the start of CBEN's official launch and garas were introduced, we keep trying to make ways around the game's flaws and try to dismiss those that point them out, rather than showing CS that they needed to fix their shit, but instead what CS hears is, this bot does the job so everything is alright now so release more like this and I will throw money at you.
Maybe plenty of old shit would be much more enjoyable if things like sub lock ons were improved on, maybe the game wouldn't be the flawed broken mess that we constantly work our way around instead of having fun if CS polished the game and actually worked on the basics instead of shitting out moes all the fucking time, but meanwhile, we are still trying to go around this or that moe, when honestly I should've been more busy trying to counter the type I'm supposed to kill anyway, not single units in the game.

Just because it can be worked around it doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed.

Edit: In Winty's video with Philia you can see ammo being wasted when he's fighting the Homura, because she locked on the barrels on top while aiming at the Homura, so he wasted the ammo, but not a big issue since the Homura was still being targeted, but if there was more targets it could become an issue, even more when the Homura is shooting at you and you are throwing your camera around to try to get a lock, that just shouldn't happen. Again, in that case it's not a major issue. This is the kind of shit that CS should've fixed a long time ago.
You don't just release a game and go, done, now add all the units to it, you have to improve the basic stuff.
I shouldn't have to bait the enemy away from trees if I want to lock on them, being able to lock on them is a basic function and should work, it's not like trying to bait someone out of a tunnel or behind a wall, it's an obstacle, a map feature, it doesn't screw up my targeting, but once any entity that isn't a player, it's problem and it should be fixed, however, things like Amlim's bits are exceptions as they are meant to screw up your weapons into locking into them and/or have them block the shots as well (and other flaws that exist to counter balance some kind of advantage).


Last edited by God is a Cat Girl on Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:17 pm; edited 3 times in total
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MrCake
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyThu Apr 21, 2016 8:36 pm

alright stop that, that's enough. if I see you two argue one more time, one point off for both of you.
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyFri Apr 22, 2016 5:33 pm

"not having enough range, innately flawed" is a pretty hard opinion. Lots of players demand higher range on things and I've never really believed that there is a "minimum acceptable range."
Obviously being unable to hit certain targets, or being unable to lock on to what you want to, are much bigger problems than having a range or a speed issue, and the fact is that they cannot be solved in the game.
I'm not submitting a message to CS, I don't do that because it's long past the point of them listening. I'm simply saying "this flaw exists."

Like if someone wants to move into a house that I own, I'd say "the guy next door is always playing loud music." rather than not tell him, and then if he says anything to me I'd say "it's your problem deal with it."
being aware of something, even if there are ways around it, is what information is about.
In fact if anything ignoring the flaw when discussing the subject is spreading misinformation.
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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyFri Apr 22, 2016 8:37 pm

Yeah, a game mechanical problem at the fundamental level is serious no matter if people can play around it or not. But do look at the positive side of some of these gun  and weigh them against the flaw, while it does not solve the problem, it does put them back into consideration.

Let me tell you a bit about house rental business, which i was apart of. as a land lord that managed 2 property in an area that was considered student residence, "the guy next door is loud" was a common complaint. But if you post that on your ad, you will not get much business. its is after the people move in, you tell them about the noisy ass next door. assure them if it happens, you can take care of it. I do have method to deal with them of course, like warnings and filing noise complains to cops. the later is usually effective.

Moral here is, you can't just show off a flaw when you are talking about something otherwise people gets dissuaded from it. Yeah, it  can be a bit lacking in honesty, but sometimes people discover its okay for what its worth. ( the room or the bot, not the noise neighbor or flaws). If there is a way to deal with it, tell them that. of course we don't have cops in CB to file complaints to.
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyFri Apr 22, 2016 8:53 pm

Except I'm not selling bots, I'm advising people on their "purchases", in which case I'm going to give them all the information, both good and bad. I don't care if they use it or not, if they are dissuaded or not, simply that they have the information they were looking for. In the example I never stated I was selling a house, simply that some was moving into it but whatever, you get the point.
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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyFri Apr 22, 2016 9:14 pm

That reminds me of all the wrong info in translations from C$. BT zook was described to charge delay. nice info C$
I prefer to let someone that show interest in a bot to try it out themselves, encourage them to actually test out the good and the bad. I do care in a bit if they are dissuaded or not, i don't want people to simply miss out on something just because someone said something about it. they might discover unexpected things or ideas that are not mentioned.
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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptySun Apr 24, 2016 8:42 pm

Uploaded Abyss Hu vid
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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyMon May 02, 2016 1:13 pm

Aqua jet Hanna is up
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blead
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyThu May 12, 2016 7:38 am

I have removed some posts with aggression/personal insults or anything unrelated to the topic.
If you want to compile a book out of this, you can contact me later.
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Astral_Dono
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyThu May 12, 2016 9:03 am

I would like a copy of that book please.
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AhegaoMaster
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyThu May 12, 2016 10:13 am

What made you go with sway instead of short boost on melfi?
Also don't waste your ECM arrows on pillar/trees/cactus just use your shock arrows.
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PostSubject: Re: Shiro's Weekend Show Cases   Shiro's Weekend Show Cases EmptyThu May 12, 2016 11:11 am

To be honest^
With the stun supply main shock arrows will regen so probably should've been farming with that.
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