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 SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck

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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptySun Feb 14, 2016 1:02 pm

In the early 2015, in a garapon forgotten by many,  in a bronze ball, came another charge weapon. Doomed to be sent to ouka or forever lost in the garage because the predecessors of this gun are notoriously niched to anti ground or simply sucks (charge beam rifle). But, SBC have redeemed its dark past by being a M size air weapon, with superior stats in almost every other way to the original charge beam weapons.

The Handheld version have a slightly different cousin later called el Percius AM3 (or was it 4). While lower in ammo, this gun have good utility as well and it worth the X3 G rapid.( its just L sized, would love to slap it on a seraph, speed up+seraph wings sounds fun)

Being M size means it can be slapped on to almost every air you want. Want to soup up a FC? Want to breath new life into old airs that seems to be forgotten in sub garage (tierouge)? Bored of played Turbo Laser Alpha Theia? BF eve's dinkly peashooter not good enough for you? SBC is your gun

Its has 35 Force. Seriously, this is thing can hit like a truck. The old charge cannons are like...30? 32? so even with out force tunes, this things will make a dent on whaever you hit.

It has 150 Ammo Base. Okay, WTF C$. not only does this thing have higher force than the original CBC, it has more ammo?

It has pretty big bullet. Compared to the original CBC, this thing's projectile it like 10 times the size. This lets you hit other airs eaiser.

It...errrr..."generate" boost!
The SBC is another one of those things that shows C$ is very tardy game developer. SBC, pretty sure it stands for STEAL Boost Charge Beam Cannon. Except C$ lies, SBC does not deplete boost of the target you hit. it simple replenishes your boost. While it does not make other air bots drop, it does make you fly longer.

Alright, now why would you play this when you can play something like Alpha Theia. What Makes this gun relevant in the current arena?

Its bullet can reach up to 500 speed, straight fire and have AOE. face it, when you play homing weapons against bikers, super sayangs, tacos and other things that seems to have an area for their existence ( instead of a single spot), you probably can't hit them. Having that speed and AOE really helps

It let you have more utility and versatility. if you are playing an air, and you can fly longer than other airs, it makes you the better preforming air. SBC give you boost on successful hits or ghost hits, letting you fly longer. because its a charge beam cannon, you can pace your firing rate , letting you just fire uncharged ( same damage BTW as full charged) shots.

So what would turn people off about this gun? Everything has its down sides.

No Ammo No life. while its 150 ammo base is impressive, what tunes are the gun really determines how long it will last in arena. At X3 G rapid beta, it still have over 100 ammo, but as you will see in the video, SBC does not need to be fully charged.

Its mid range. The range of SBC is 330, This puts the player right in the comfy zone of Berz, Homura, Roar Arms, Moray BS and many other high DPS arts. So unless its 1v1 situation against an art, probably not safe.

Stun? Doko? The CBC was a monster when you can land a direct hit. it hard stuns, kill booster and drop airs. SBC on the other hand absolutely have no stun. This puts the SBC player at a disadvantage against high DPS airs unless they have CV.

Its annoying with no sniper sight. When people notice that large chuck of damage, they starts to notice the SBC aimed at them and starts to walk funny to avoid it. This gets annoying considering you want to follow your initial shots with more uncharged shots. They start to walk funny when they feel that constant lock on. With sniper sight, people have a harder time responding immediately.
However, Its not a must to get sniper sight. SBC is still a mid range weapon, people will probably notice the sbc even if you do have sniper sight after you hit them once or twice. But hey, if it makes life easier, why not use it. Try it out yourself and decide. Take something else, maybe fast recovery, quick land or even beam guard.

What tunes?

X3 G rapid is great for nailing things. Anything, anytime. if it can be locked on, thats 70-90 damage right there.

High Air force and X2 g rapid. 490 speed is not terrible, just its a bit more costly. 135 ammo is decent too.

High shooter and X2 G rapid. 360 range is puts you at a safer distance against those arts. Not bad.

G force and G rapid Combinations. I prefer more speed. hitting things consistently is better than hit things once in a while. i i shy away from force tunes

X3 G force. good luck. I can't tell you not to do this, but have those cosmo regerts ready.

What cores?

This is a tough question since there are many many bots to choose from.
What I look for personally are bots with Capa to handle the gun, the utilities and its tunes, Stovel/take off/roll ( swift jet BS or the new brick gale) or built in boost drain/replenish. The later 2 can be hard to find since core with them are few in numbers, like izuna kon or tierouge. But many parts  offer the same abilities, like the boost steal BS from Fenmei. Reason i say a secondary boost recovery option is needed is because uncharged shots replenish very small amount of boost. While it can prolong flight time, it can not support air dash. This problem does not present itself with Eve BF core but it is still suggested to conserve her HP.
The mid air roll BS are effective when combined with accel rolls. Glide boost bots, no matter if its built in or by cart, are also effective when combined with the buff granted by a full charged shot or perilous tunes.

Core tunes?
There are only 3 Core tunes that i consider musts
Stun supply well duh, need ammo

Perilous Runner/flyer. Perilous Runner combos well with the conserve boost air dash letting you reach blistering speed with glide boost, great for getting out of troubles. Perilous flyer let accell roll more, fly longer and potentially abuse fall charge.Depending on the bot or if you are using el percius( or if someone wanted to try out AG with SBC), Flyer would give more advantage than runner.

Guard air dash: no matter if you are glide boosting or accel rolling, this would come in handy.


Last edited by WhiteTofuMagic on Fri Feb 19, 2016 11:51 am; edited 4 times in total
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Toilet-Flusher
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SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck Empty
PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyMon Feb 15, 2016 9:46 am

fill me up with that white stuff of yours
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SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck Empty
PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyMon Feb 15, 2016 11:55 am

I have one of these things, and I wholeheartedly agree.

Except mine is the Mod version, with less ammo and more Force. Though it really doesn't need that much ammo with how it fires.
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyMon Feb 15, 2016 10:14 pm

Quote :
When people feel your lock on for a good 3 seconds, they starts to notice the SBC aimed at them

stop aiming at people before you are ready to fire? lol this shouldn't even be a problem.
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udon-GE
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 6:47 am

3 G force all the way, and jet falcon
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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 7:02 pm

I should clarify why you need the sniper sight to make it less annoying. Winty is making this more confusing with his comment. I clearly said sbc does not need to be fully charged to fire for full damage. you charge it fully for that boost conserve air dash buff. so if you are chasing after a lnd bot, you just fire as fast as the cool down lets you. Aside from that, you fire as soon as you have lock on.
I don't think the game let you jerk your mouse off the target and still let you fly straight. Even if you can, still annoying, which is why i said you need sniper sight.
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 7:32 pm

@WhiteTofuMagic wrote:
I don't think the game let you jerk your mouse off the target and still let you fly straight.

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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 7:44 pm

Lel. okay, you can do that. But you are proving my point. you wanna play SBC doing that the everytime you go attack something or you can get sniper sight and be less annoyed.
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 7:48 pm

the only point I'm proving is that you don't need to be staring at something all the time regardless of what your movement is.

taking sniper sight is wasting both cost and a potentially useful cart in order to be lazy and not actually make your bot better in any way, shape or form.

i don't know why you would suggest this in any form other than "if you have spare cost and carts, this is an option"

it's just dumb
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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 8:02 pm

@Winty wrote:
the only point I'm proving is that you don't need to be staring at something all the time regardless of what your movement is.
True. I agree with that. But i am talking about shooting at people and keep on shooting at them with every opportunity(end of a cool down) you get. doing that up and down thing is disruptive. This gun is closer to Sekka's main than a ruin cannon.

Your comment on Sniper Sight is your own bias opinion. If its a waste, thats like saying G rapids are bad tunes when you can walk up to people. Its a preference. I can't say every bot need sniper sight. But if its give an advantage, i think it should be taken.
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 8:07 pm

except there is no advantage here. You're saying it yourself. "it's annoying." That's not a disadvantage, that's just an allowance to be lazy. Having to walk up to people takes time, puts you in a potentially worse map position, and makes you more vulnerable to melee attacks and the guy shooting back. There is a clear advantage to not having to do this. There's no tactical advantage to taking sniper sight to do what you are describing. There are advantages to taking it, but they aren't what you have listed.
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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 8:18 pm

@Winty wrote:
except there is no advantage here. You're saying it yourself. "it's annoying." That's not a disadvantage, that's just an allowance to be lazy.There's no tactical advantage to taking sniper sight to do what you are describing. There are advantages to taking it, but they aren't what you have listed.

Do you even know what i am describing? Like i said, that is just your preference. Its your problem if you don't see the advantage of it. You should make a thread for sniper sight if you want to do this kind of discussion.
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 8:31 pm

the ability to not be lazy is not a tactical or mathematical advantage, it's all in your head. You bringing up personal preference is just that. Everything I have said is based on how to use resources(cost and cart levels) effectively. You are brining up concepts that don't have any actual data to back them up.
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SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck Empty
PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 8:35 pm

Sniper Sight is hot garbage on assault weapons like SBCBC. 330 range does not justify this cart because the entire point of Sniper Sight is to keep people wondering just where the shot came from. After the first shot people will detect toy immediately since you're in viewing range.
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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 8:55 pm

330 does not justify sniper sight. But when they see you, they are unsure if they are the next target or when the next shot is coming. you can start timing half charged shots on hoppers and other bots.

This lets you get more shots in, meaning more damage and more kills. This is both tactical and mathematical advantage. DPS is cold hard data.

I did make the whole "sniper sight or not" last to make it optional. I don't get how laziness have anything to do with it.
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 9:16 pm

being lazy and no data is all about the mouse movement thing. Sniper sight isn't needed for DPS. You can just look away from them until you are ready to fire. How is this a hard concept.
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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 9:26 pm

How are you not getting unloading uncharged shots fast as possible? you don't have time to be like someone with Parkinson and shake up and down to charge shots. That is what DPS mean. Parkinson it up for 1 shot for 75 ( and probably not gonna hit)or take sniper sight and unload 2 for 120-140. This has nothing to laziness.

Do you still remember what you said about advantages of Charge Beam Cannon In that beginner room thread? About its advantage being only AOE and High Force? cause I hope someone told you its wrong by now.
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 9:47 pm

So just because you have sniper sight on the second shot will magically hit? They already got hit once, why are they not doing anything to avoid the second? Yet they will move if they get a notification of a lockon, but not if they take 75 damage?

What you are saying makes 0 sense.


And yes, please bring up something I said last year(maybe even 2 years by now) and tell me how it's wrong. While you are at it, tell me how it's related to this.
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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 10:09 pm

It has a higher likelihood of happening. Yes, it sounds magical but you don't have to believe me.Try it yourself and compare it. ( i would say this to anyone else reading this rant between me and winty) I played Sniper sight on Izuna Kon and Non sniper sight version on BF eve. Because of sniper sight, more bikes, boost run bots and even hoppers run straight or mess up the timing of short boost thus get nailed. BF eve gets away with it cause of nearly unlimited boost gauge let you try attack runs over and over.

I brought the topic you said year ago up because i have no clue if you still think about charge beam cannon like that. CBC is the direct predecessor to SBC and have the same play style. It would explain a lot about your comments.
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 10:20 pm

my comments are based entirely on the information you have provided in this guide. I do not have this weapon since I do not roll garapons anymore. The situations you are describing were never an issue with CBC because I either took duels up close with low hopping or I'd accel roll onto someone with a fully charged shot, shoot them, and then move away. One of these is against someone who clearly knows I'm there(hence sniper sight is useless) and the other I'm not going to lock onto until I'm ready to fire(hence sniper sight is useless).

This boils down to playstyle. You can say I have no understanding of how to play if you want, but you guide has talked nothing about playstyle or actual uses of the weapon, and just told me what it does, with half of the text simply listing the stats on the weapon which I can just see in cosmicalc. I guess this is acceptable because your guide is titled "why you should care" and not "how to use" but if you want to talk to me about being uninformed, the fault lies entirely with you as everything I have said is based off the information you have provided.
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 10:47 pm

Both of you are just repeating the same thing, over and over and over. Tofu you can just do something like putting Sniper Sight as an optional cart and put Winty's reasons along with yours on why it's optional. I dunno, just something so people don't read about how the hot potato game is played.
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 10:51 pm

@Winty wrote:
I do not have this weapon since I do not roll garapons anymore.
 Why are even talking about sniper sight or not? I know you did contribute something, but if your experience is so limited, how do you even know your are right? I guess being on the receiving end of the gun does count but still.

I did talk about play style in my vid. I not only talked about stats, i also talked about functions of the gun and why use this gun. I can't tell people how to tune the gun one specific way or use it with  "THAT BOT" because everyone like it different. I can only tell them my experiences and what i use it for. When someone say they want to X3 G force it, i can't say no but i don't encourage it. I really recommend sniper sight, but it not like i said the gun can not work with out it. When i write a guide, i specifically leave out the build details so people is not bog down with a set idea.

yes, you can play SBC like you play your CBC. But from my experience, just unloading charged shots is inefficient. you really should try using it uncharged after the initial shot and keep firing it,  CBC or SBC. CBC hard stuns even if its uncharged and hit for full damage. Just don't make that joke bot Omega made with 2 CBC and alter fire them.
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Winty
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 11:10 pm

please read what I wrote. I only mentioned using charged shots for "nuking groups" where the AoE was important.

I'm talking about sniper sight based on the information you provided and what I see people doing with the weapon, both on my team and on the enemy team, and what I know sniper sight is actually useful for(dia talked about this). Given all the information that is available, I saw no reason to use sniper sight, and the reasoning you initially listed didn't make sense, which is what my first post said.

No, I did not watch the video. I did not think it would have voice, and thought it was just arena footage. This was my mistake.

I'm not saying you should include build details in a guide, but strategy information should be written out so that people can read it. Even if it's just a transcript of what you say in the video, having things in writing is much better for teaching people things because it can be taken in at any rate. I do not think "video guides" are very effective, but that is my opinion and the rest of the internet disagrees with me.
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyThu Feb 18, 2016 11:34 pm

@WhiteTofuMagic wrote:
@Winty wrote:
I do not have this weapon since I do not roll garapons anymore.
 Why are even talking about sniper sight or not? I know you did contribute something, but if your experience is so limited, how do you even know your are right? I guess being on the receiving end of the gun does count but still.

I did talk about play style in my vid. I not only talked about stats, i also talked about functions of the gun and why use this gun. I can't tell people how to tune the gun one specific way or use it with  "THAT BOT" because everyone like it different. I can only tell them my experiences and what i use it for. When someone say they want to X3 G force it, i can't say no but i don't encourage it. I really recommend sniper sight, but it not like i said the gun can not work with out it. When i write a guide, i specifically leave out the build details so people is not bog down with a set idea.

yes, you can play SBC like you play your CBC. But from my experience, just unloading charged shots is inefficient. you really should try using it uncharged after the initial shot and keep firing it,  CBC or SBC. CBC hard stuns even if its uncharged and hit for full damage. Just don't make that joke bot Omega made with 2 CBC and alter fire them.

@WhiteTofuMagic wrote:

Its annoying with no sniper sight. When people feel your lock on for a good 3 seconds, they starts to notice the SBC aimed at them and starts to walk funny to avoid it. This gets annoying considering ammo is important and missing the shots is bad.

Things with sniper sight should be top on the list.


You just made it a set idea, not only that, you won't accept that you can simply not preemptively lock on the enemy, which is what you describe. You are not describing an enemy getting hit, because if they are hit, they will locate you and take measures (unless this is all about idiots, not at least relatively decent players), if they are only "feeling" your lock on, you might question yourself why are you locking on someone for 3 seconds and not shooting, because you can't even say that you are waiting for them to stray away from their team, because at 330 range and with LoS to get the lock, you are in visible range and you should get hit and killed on spot and it won't even be unfair, you asked for it, you deserved it (oh right, most of CB population is warping shits and idiots that doesn't want to get points, my mistake).


I'd say that I also find questionable that you don't try to suggest things that make the use of the weapon efficiently, but just "has sniper sight or capa".
Wasn't this the weapon with the air dash boost consumption buff? (I do forget if it is, too many abbreviations.)


Talking about DPS, barely anyone can calculate DPS in this game (if anyone), so throwing such term as an argument is rather... crappy. But yes, SBC is a nice burst DPS weapon, not sure if it's the greatest on things like Seraph considering that Burst DPS weapons are terrible at constant DPS because of how CB works, which might as well make other weapons as viable or if not more efficient without wasting the weapon potential (because a common Seraph won't make full use of it, a "crappy" Seraph will though.). It probably works fine because of the force, but feels like a waste unless you really have to use her (honestly, I'd go with something else without the hassle of bad coding).
But hey, the weapon is good enough to make crap like Feng Mei Ryu decent, even though her capa is quite tight for this weapon to have all the tunes in the world, at least the way the weapon works lets you make use of that bit, because if you are not using her weapons, at least she offers something that a blank bot won't.
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WhiteTofuMagic
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PostSubject: Re: SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck   SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck EmptyFri Feb 19, 2016 11:19 am

Quote :
you might question yourself why are you locking on someone for 3 seconds and not shooting
I updated the section. Its a bit odd cause people is not stringing the fact together and making sense of what i am saying. I did mention to lead with a charged shot and fire uncharged shots afterwards. Its not like i am not shooting the guy during the 3 second.

I also mentioned the boost conservation air dash buff and how it can be combed with Perilous Runner. I also mentioned why a secondary weapon or ability that can replenish boost should be considered.
there is nothing wrong with using a blank bot either. you can put on parts to accomplish what you want. my oldest CBC build is a pacifier core and its completely viable with SBC.

I should just do a transcript of the ideas ( even if it is written in bubbles) in the Video like Winty said. It's probably better to help people understand it better.
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SBC and You. what is it and Why should you give a fck Empty
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